my reasons haven’t changed. i don’t believe his claim. why are YOU so eager to believe him? he claims to have no results so there must be a roleblocker and you just accept it? it could just be as easily be that he’s not Town and not a cop.
furthermore, i did say that i would be rereading since i haven’t had much time this week. i’m also following the vote early, vote often belief which seems to be followed more in these boards.
Astral was my vote yesterDay. wouldn’t it have seemed strange if i voted for someone else without any reason at all?
I wouldn’t have a clue, being even less experienced than you, but it seems just as easy for him to be scum and claim there is a role-blocker and avoid giving town any information. I don’t know whether he is scum or not, because there for every argument there is counter-argument, so I don’t know what to think. But I do not think it is safe to assume 100% that Astral is legit.
Well, I do believe him, I’ve believed him since the beginning. And, yes, I do believe him when he said there must be a roleblocker, for the simple reason that if he was really scum, why wouldn’t he have picked a townie to say was really a townie? It would probably have been a safer claim then him saying there was a roleblocker. (at least, that’s the way I see it, again, not too much experience, so if I’m wrong in my assumptions, let me know).
Since I do believe Astral is town, and nothing that has happened overnight has made me doubt my belief, I have to assume that anyone who is still trying to start a bandwagon against him must be scum trying to get rid of a cop without worrying about a doctor protecting him… So, with that whole vote early and vote often thing, I’m going ahead and…
While that is possible, I don’t think a scum Astral would do that on Day 2. He was almost lynched on day one. I would think a scum Astral would assume it is possible he would be lynched on day 2, so would want to give some sort of information. I would think if he was scum, he would give a townie, since if we did lynch him, we would assume he was lying, and then lynch the townie he gave us the next day… While, if he gave us a scum, and the scum was really a townie, we would lynch the townie, then him (from what I gather, 1 to 1 trades aren’t worth it for scum). Though, of course, if he gave us a scum, and we lynched him, we would believe him 100%, but the second he used us, we would turn on all his vouches, so what would be the point on day 2?
I honestly think that a scum Astral would have given us a townie, and a town cop Astral would give us what his actual results were…
So, while it might be a little weird, I believe him 100% for saying there is a scum roleblocker, while if he gave us a townie, I would only believe him as much as yesterday, (i.e., mostly, but not hold it against people who didn’t).
Now, of course, this is only my second game, so not saying I’m an expert… Heck, I’ve never even played scum, my only idea of what scum would do is based of old games I’ve read, and reading the scum boards. If someone can give me an example of scum claiming cop, then claiming a roleblocker instead of giving a result, I’ll rethink my opinion, but until then… I’m still going to believe Astral is legit, and will vote accordingly.
Do you have a case beyond not believing my claim? What do you think of my case-building attempts yesterDay? Did they seem honest to you, or disingenuous? What do you think about the other cases on me? Do you agree with them, or find them suspect? For instance, do you like Zeriel’s case, which as point number one concluded while I might be a townie and not paying attention, I should still be lynched for it? Do you find those cases reinforce yours, or do they make you reconsider?
I feel you haven’t made any attempt to include other information in your vote, and I find that suspicious*.
Vote gnarliecharlie
(*This is not a smudge, it’s a clear statement of suspicion.)
If he is a scum false-claiming cop, then a roleblocker is a handy excuse and it leads town off into chasing a possibly non-existent roleblocker so that they can use their cop. If he falsely claims a scum is town and then they die later on, he’s in a tough spot. If he claims a townie is town then he’s effectively a town cop. Not what scum want.
This makes no sense either, now that I think about it. How can town “chase” a roleblocker? Either we find scum or we don’t. There’s no magical way to pick which scum we want to hunt. And further, why would we be chasing a roleblocker so we can use our cop? What does that even mean? Is our cop waiting until the roleblocker is dead before submitting his investigation choices?
Since I’m your cop, I’ll answer that question: no, I didn’t wait. I submitted one last night and it was unsuccessful.
I think Stickler’s trying to say that even virtual confirmed town, if you finger definite townies during the course of any lying you might do, will reduce town’s hunting pool for the portion of town who believes that you are the cop.
Well, if you made it through more than 5 days with results at least one person on your list of townies should be legit. And we wouldn’t. Just as when we suspect a scum godfather.
Read more games. Power roles reveal themselves all over the place sometimes via behavior, via suggestions and via suppositions about the game state. If town believes you are the cop and are being roleblocked, then they’re going to devote a lot of time and energy to finding that rb as they’re still hunting for scum but they get the bonus of freeing up their cop. If there is no rb that time and energy is wasted. The more scum can deflect and distract the better for them.
That’s not really true. You got in trouble for not voting in a very specific situation, where you had expressed a great deal of suspicion toward someone else. I don’t like the false dichotomy here. I don’t think anyone would have begrudged you in the least if you had had a different vote upon re-read. (Assuming it was a good one, etc.)
Extension of the false dichotomy. You didn’t have to vote at all. Either your vote on Astral right now is worth making in and of itself, or it’s not. It has to be defended for what it is, not on the basis of some hypothetical other choice looking even more strange. This doesn’t feel like a townie thought process to me; it reminds me too much of myself from the last game.
vote: gnarlycharlie
This may not stay; I’m finding a lot suspicious in Silver Jan’s history, though I haven’t gotten to the end yet. We’ll see.
I also don’t agree with Hirka’s logic on Astral, but I might be too sleepy to explain why.
I know the feeling… I’ve been drinking myself, and getting tired. Once you wake up and can explain why my logic is flawed, let me know. Trust me, I’m open for arguments. I’m currently calling things as I see them, but still, as a newbie, everyone has more experience then I do in seeing things. I’m perfectly willing to be persuaded in changing my vote.
You assume wrong. Scum motivations aren’t that easy to parse. As just one reason you logic doesn’t hold up: Astral talked yesterday about the probability that he would be roleblocked. Clearly he believes, or has believed at some point, that a claimed town cop in this situation would be expected to be roleblocked. He could simply be trying to do the most expected/conservative thing, here. At this point I see no way to be sure.
@ Inner – what benefit in Astral remaining alive that you didn’t see before? And explain the roleblocker thing more because I don’t get it at all. Town hunts scum in general, not specific scum roles such that trying to get a scum roleblocker means you never lynch the godfather, or something.
@ Astral – Who did you send in orders on, or what is your reasoning for not revealing that?
I misspoke when I send hunt for a scum roleblocker. But if town is building cases and analyzing data on the assumption that there is a roleblocker when in fact, that roleblocker does not exist then town is chasing a faulty premise and their conclusions become faulty. That is more in line with what I meant.
Oh, I forgot the staying alive part. If we lynch him and he’s CARS, that sucks, we lynched a cop. If we keep him alive and he’s CARS, then he can continue to provide input and possibly investigation results that would become more trustworthy if he dies later on. If we lynch him and he’s ALE, hurray! If we keep him alive and he’s ALE, then we have more opportunities to catch him out or catch other scum slipping up in reference to him. Basically, I agree with Pleonast from yesterday. He’s provided a way for us to test his claim, let’s do that and reconvene on Day 4ish while looking for other scummy people.
i will NOT unvote for the rest of the Day even to save myself. i will continue with the limited time i have to contribute and share my thoughts. i may even ‘vote’ even if they will note count ala Pleo or just FOS.