It’s a non-town claim, so it stands out. I was in two minds about colouring town claims, but decided to leave it out.
MHaye claimed vanilla at 1263.
Yes, in post [post=13933807]1263[/post].
Back later.
Ok, thanks. I’m really curious as to what happened in the night now.
What was my fault?
Somebody’s been holding out on us?
I’m not sure what’s going on with this MHaye vs. Mahaloth exchange, but it’s making me twitchy.
One of you two needs to clarify some stuff.
I agree it’s a little late in the game to be coy about roles/results/etc.
I do see a possiblity that is consistent with the revealed roles, but I’d like to see MHaye and Mahaloth spell it out.
OK I’m done reading up on nesta. Her day one case against fubbleskag was (minus a few confirmation-bias sort of quibbles) really quite solid. However, pretty much everything else looks like scum. To summarize:
– very tentative (while yet mildly encouraging) against the established bandwagons on townies Astral and gnarlycharlie on day one and day two. Both times there was no comment by nesta at all until the bandwagon was well established. Both times she contributed to the suspicion (with Astral, with meta-ish concerns regarding PIS/setups in other games; with gnarlycharlie, with self-vote is scum or anti-town) without actually voting.
Her first comment about Astral (227)
I find that accusations of PIS, when the subject is as generic as “most games have only one traditional scum team”, come disproportionately from scum. Nesta goes on to ask Astral a series of questions about Night Zero, but they don’t really go anywhere and I’m not sure ever had any chance to.
776
This comment is unexceptional except in terms of the pattern mentioned above (late to the party, mild boosting of the established case, but no vote, only questions (which in this case are not followed up on at all: nesta says she was busy and has only one further post on Day Two, near its end, in which she comments negatively on Hirka and votes gnarly, all for reasons established by other people).
– day three and four, early contribution to scum hunting disappears entirely. Day three she has a summary of the early claims (calling none out as suspicious, which while undoubtedly fair is also safe), a brief kerfuffle with Astral over the night zero stuff, then votes for TexCat very late in post 1069.
As with gnarlycharlie on day two, the case is already done and dusted by the time she votes (or in this case, even comments at all). I don’t agree with what she does add; at worst the vanilla claim was neutral.
Day Four was just a couple of error corrections (mine and hers), plus her claim post, before voting Silver Jan dead last in post 1305.
(She votes for real after an exchange with MHaye.) I can’t argue much with this vote, obviously, though none of that had anything to do with why I voted for her. (In fact, the comments directly aimed at gnarly were the most genuine thing about her, IMO.)
Finally, a day one comment aimed at gnarly that felt scummy in its own right (post 604):
As with the quasi-PIS argument used against Astral up top, that “in case” is the kind of “scum slip” that scum seem to jump on out of all proportion to townies. Plus, it’s obvious enough what gnarly is saying about Astral, that he is deliberately hedging his bet so as not to bear too much responsibility if and when he contributes to lynching (townie) gnarly. I don’t see any source of confusion for nesta here, so the question looks like fake-townie.
nesta looks like scum to me – capable of making strong arguments, but mostly avoiding the necessity.
(And by the way, any strings of extraneous letters found anywhere in the above are the fault of my mouse pad, which came back from the repairman yesterday about ten times as sensitive as it was previously. I keep nailing it with my knuckle and winding up with the cursor who-knows-where.)
Well, so do I, but it requires a couple of assumptions that are counter-intuitive to me (that Red Skeezix would inform a no-power player of being hobbled; and that MHaye wouldn’t have internalized Mahaloth’s role yesterday already). Assuming that’s what you’re talking about.
I should probably add that I’m reading MHaye as town (on the strength of his day one contributions), so I’m not expecting the resolution of this mystery to turn up anything worth voting for, but I suppose we shall see.
I like your case on nesta; I think the points you raise are valid. I went through some of the posts as well just now and I feel that the focus on players we now know to be town and the lack of any real followup for cases makes me feel comfortable voting for nesta. It reads very townie scumhunter without actually requiring scum bussing.
vote nesta
I’ll be happy to, but I want to hear Mhaye’s answer to my question first.
Mhaye, what was my fault?
=
Vote MHaye
Finally tracked down the Zeriel stuff.
First, Stanislaus’ day one case against Zeriel, which MHaye seconded (post 627):
So there’s the reference to someone saying Zeriel had pursued someone he believed to be a third party survivor. Zeriel did have a vote on Astral and spent a lot of time talking about him, though he eventually unvoted Astral on the basis of MHaye’s expansion of Pleonast’s “wait a few days and re-evaluate” argument. Did Zeriel actually say he believed Astral is a third party survivor (as opposed to PFK, as he states earlier toDay)? Well, yes, he did, in post 458 (internal quotes not included this time):
Where does Zeriel vote for Astral? Early on in post 160 (pre-claim) for the same reason as all the other early votes. He doesn’t like Astral’s early claim, same as Silver Jan (scum) and Pleonast (town), says he could see Astral as third party/survivor, keeps his vote on. In 563 after criticism from Stanislaus reiterates that early cop claim is anti-town whether Zeriel is the suspected survivor role or not. Only in the unvote post of 653 does he EVER mention PFKs:
This is after the two votes on him for wanting to lynch someone he thinks is a survivor. Smacks of backing and filling. And I thought of one more thing just now: if you yourself are a survivor, Zeriel, why would you ever conceive of Astral as the same? Games with more than one survivor are not exactly common.
I’m not sure whether not actually being town and trying to survive a game without the scum killing you off can account for stuff like this. In some ways Zeriel does act like a third party more than like scum (the votes for Hirka, for instance, which I’d believe a scum Zeriel would be more likely to avoid than to indulge in – he does know how to play this game; and the innumerable references to why third parties should be left unmolested). In other ways he acts more like scum (pursuing Astral at all, who should be zero threat to a real third party but not so much for scum; the BS reasoning described above).
If someone’s doing nothing much over the next hour or so, links to any arguments from yesterday on why Zeriel would fit (or not) as the mad bomber would be appreciated, because I’ve forgotten them.
Whatever he is, he’s certainly full of shit. (I say with all due respect.)
Last Night, someone performed an action on me. I was informed of the overt manifestations of this action by PM from Red Skeezix, and the consequences.
I chose, at the time, not to say anything about it, for two reasons; firstly, it was my thought that if the person responsible for the action were a Slumlord they might admit it, whereas an ALE-drinker or other threat to our glorious collective would keep it hidden. Secondly it was gone midnight, and I did not wish to say anything without sleeping on it first.
When I woke up this morning I saw post [post=13947055]1350[/post]. In it, mahaloth said: -
It appeared from this as if you knew what had happened to me, and who would know better than the person who did it?
The exact mechanism is something I could see an Inventor using, since it involved a mechanism. Hence I asked if it were your fault.
Since then, another possible culprit has stuck their head above the parapet. To understand this, I must first reveal the PM from Red.
[QUOTE=Red Skeezix]
On your way back to bed last night you stepped in a bear trap. This will make things like walking and performing night actions more difficult for you.
[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing about today’s discussion is post [post=13948665]1371[/post] from Normal Phase.
(Bolding mine.)
What made you think I had been restricted in my movement capacity, Normal?
Winston, if you’re going to vote me I think I (and everyone else) deserve some actual justification as to how those two posts combine to prove me an ALE drinker.
Stanislaus is full of crap–he’s using the fact (as are you, by proxy) that I said “survivor” in a post about evaluating when to kill vs. not kill 3rd-parties.
And how did I justify that, I wonder? Let’s, I dunno, look at my actual vote post .
Hmm, no “survivor” there.
There’s a lot of discussion between you and me on this very point, wherein I speculate about possible 3rd-party roles, wincons, and motives. You seem to be attaching a lot of “game structure/setup discussion” to the specific Astral case, which wasn’t what I was doing at all.
In 322, I give another good reason to look askance at Astral–he claims with all of four votes on him, pretty early in the day. Seems like jumping the gun, I said at the time.
And you’ll note I expressly mention, not just “survivor”, but “attempting to utilize the doctor”. His claim, if it were spurious as I thought at the time, was likely to suck up any given doctor’s time and energy in the absence of a counterclaim, which was the only motive I could figure on for claiming “variant cop” while being confused about one’s win condition, and which is pretty anti-town.
Why would I, before I knew how town was going to react to third parties, do anything that made me act like I was in the know about something? I was sticking my neck out enough by talking about third parties at all, IMHO.
As I mentioned in discussion following the mass claim, if I got investigated I was going to come up “blocked” every time. Astral was very much a threat to me until we were at a point in the game where I could feel safer with an outright third-party claim.
Accepted in the spirit it was entered. 
Actually, I HAVE been a mad bomber in another game. You can tell when I’m a mad bomber because I really, really suck at it, if that was any indication. 
Mahaloth is pretty much confirmed, and I figured if he was saying either you or I did the night kill last night, and I know I didn’t do it, so it must be you. And then you’re being coy, I assumed to divert attention away from this.
Except Mahaloth didn’t say either. Mahaloth said neither. And so my rock-solid case was based on the absence of a single letter n*, and upon discovery of this n, I
Unvote MHaye
:smack:
Apparently you in fact did not internalize Mahaloth’s claim.
He claimed four powers:
– block all actions from hitting someone on a given night
– the nexus thing
– sacrifice himself to protect a given player for two nights
– “hobble” a player (delay all their subsequent actions by half a cycle)
When he revealed his claim yesterday, after having been pushing for the mass claim all day up to then, my assumption was that he had done so because he had already used all powers except the self-sacrifice, and wanted full information about who to use it on, if anyone. Apparently that wasn’t the case, and he still had (at least) the hobble left, which he used on you.
I wasn’t expecting it to be so literal as a bear trap. That’s kind of funny, actually.