George Galloway - Peoples Champion or Liar?

Further to his recent appearance before a US senate committee as detailed in this BBC report.

I was impressed by his rebuttal of the accusation that he profted from oil sales from Iraq, he came across as quite the injured party. Now I have never been a fan of Mr Galloway nor do I share many of his political views, but I do not have sufficient evidence to be convinced of his guilt.

I am interested to know, what evidence besides the papers “discovered” in Iraq exists? And What is the general opinion of the man and the accusations on this board?

I’ve always hated the man (for being one of those types who doomed the Labour Party to 18 years of defeats) but I’d be surprised if he’s not honest in his own way. The Senate Report itself said they have no evidence he profited personally from the alleged oil and not confronting him with the allegations, the evidence and his accusers isn’t on. It is alleged that the ‘evidence’ is only photocopies to which it is easy to affix a name after the event and the uncorroberated testimony of those held in US custody. This is just way too flimsy.

Show me the money. If he’s a secretely rich man, where is it? I don’t doubt for one second the intelligence services have been trawling his affairs with a fine toothcomb and if there were any proof it would have been trumpeted by now.

As false documents have been used in the past to fit him up I suspect the same is true here and until some actual valid evidence that can pass proper examination comes up I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But - damn good performance in front of that committee, headed by a dick who in answer to a BBC question as to why they had not presented the accusations replied ‘there was no point, we knew what he would say.’ That’s not a search for truth, that’s a lynching in the making.

As i said, I hate the man, and a large part of me would like it to be proven.

Similarly I don’t particularly like ‘Gorgeous’ George, but it was good to hear him defend himself with such gusto, given the rather austere context - I especially liked the much-quoted part where he points out that Donald Rumsfeld had also met Saddam twice, but him to sell arms…priceless.

I did not have an opinion on Mr. Galloway, but suffice to say that the “liberal media” in the USA was so lethargic that when Galloway states what is obvious to many in this message board (do a search on Chalabi) the result is amusing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4557369.stm

More from Galloway:

Well, I’m kinda with staggerlee and tagos and don’t like the guy (I’m UK btw) although I can’t quite put my finger on why. I was completely against the war too so should technically back him but there’s something that just makes me dislike him.
That being said, he really gave a cracking account of himself. Looking forward to perusing the papers today and seeing how this all turns out. You must admit that the Rumsfeld bit was priceless.

Agreed, if as is claimed he has sold somewhere in the region of 250 million barrels of oil, there must be considerable quantities of money in various bank accounts. Surely if the accusations are true, the FBI or the CIA in conjuction with our (British) police and secret service must be able to find evidence of large financial transactions, if not then the case cannot possibly be proven.

I echo what BadBadger says, I don’t like Galloway for reasons that I can’t quite put my finger on, but he seems to be right on the button with his quote inGIGOBuster’s post about the corruption at Haliburton and other corporations taking billions of dollars worth of oil from Iraq. Although I would also like to see evidence of this, rather than just jumping on the “let’s hammer the big bad oil company” bandwagon.

He also echo’s my sentiments against the reasons for going to war in the first place and yet I still distrust him. Is this the effect of the media campaign against him or is he generally distrusted?

George Galloway is the champion of nobody but himself. I can’t forget the sight of the nauseous little creep practically kowtowing to Saddam Hussein in front of the world’s cameras when he met him in 1994.

“Mr. President, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability.”

In the 30s he would have been in Moscow making fawning speeches to Stalin.

No different from Rumsfeld in that both wanted something from the old murderer and were prepared to put their tongues in the appropriate orifice but I agree. He’s an archetypal Old Left type who although his heart is in the right place social justice-wise just can’t see beyond the old ‘enemy of my enemy’ thing.

IMHO these sort of people are the worst enemies of progressive politics, just like the Webbs and the other blind, stupid apologists for Stalin were. I wish all those Socialist Worker types would piss off. If they want to help - join the Tory Party and discredit them with their stupid antics.

Galloway is right when he claims he was opposing Saddam back when the US and the UK were arming him and pointing him at Iran, back in the eighties. But back then Saddam was our friend and the BBC (maybe ITV but I think it was Panorama) were slammed by Tory politicians for a documentary that suggested he gassed the Kurds.

That came from an interwiew in 2002, but he is not so naive as he shows later:

Galloway has always said that he was talking about Iraq as a whole in this statement and not just SH.

Same thing happened yesterday when he said to Levin “You supported the war”. Levin said he hadn’t actually supported it and Galloway said he had meant the Senate as a whole.

At the end of the day though so what if he did say that about SH. He wouldn’t be the first politician to kiss the ass of a bastard to get access to what he wanted. Galloway was against the SH regime for a long time. A lot of this stuff getting thrown around is just aimed at discrediting Galloway.

Things aren’t black and white no matter what the current leaders would have us believe. Galloway can be a nasty far left fucker(and he is) and still be right about this instance.

The evidence seems to be based on conjecture and assumptions. My thrust in the US admin is at zero when it comes to Iraq so although I don’t like it I’m siding with Galloway until actual hard evidence comes out.

I’d shed no tears however if Galloway was actually guilty of profiteering.

I completely disagree with everything that Galloway stands for, yet I still can’t help but like him in some way. Maybe it’s his defiance, maybe it’s a routing for the underdog thing, I don’t know. I know that this hearing and Paxman’s interview, both stupidly trying to portray him as something he isn’t, only make him more likeable to me, anyway.

They’re not necessarily mutually exclusive…

Interesting interview - thanks for that. I was probably at the same anti-Saddam demonstrations as him but didn’t realise he was associated with War on Want.

I just wanted us to live up to our ideals and stop supporting a vile tyrant. Too much to expect in the Reagan/Thatcher era of course.

Interesting that so many UK dopers point out how they dislike Galloway, but can’t put a definite reason on it. Personally I don’t see anything any more objectionable about him than what you could say about 50% of all politicians. Fond of own voice, check, big headed, check, publicity hungry, check, touch arrogant, check. Maybe it makes him not the ideal candidate for frequent social contact, but all perfectly normal and ok for a politician.

But beyond that, the fact he sticks to his guns, no matter how unpopular the cause, (and, boy, he’s backed a few in his time) seems to make him more appealing than most other politicians. He’s even, as in the case, been proved 100% right sometimes. It’s not so long ago that his efforts at aid for Iraq brought him nothing but derision and accusations of sucking up to Saddam. But now, all of a sudden, everyone is concerned about the Iraqi people and how they suffered. Why, it’s what we went to war for, isn’t it?? Where was this concern when it was clear it was these same people who suffered most during Iraq’s time under embargo?

Who would begrudge him a moment to rub it in opponents’ faces?

But still he generates such dislike. Looks to me like the smear campaigns he keeps winning libel awards for work. :dubious:

He’s like George W. Bush, except he has the facts on his side? :slight_smile:

(Look out, here comes Priceguy! :smiley: )

And, unlike Bush or Coleman, he can actually speak extemporaneously in an intelligible form of the English language.

Galloway actually did very poorly in the hearings, but he has effectively sold many of you with blind rhetoric and by bringing up irrelevant facts.

Here’s some glaring fallacies we saw from Mr Galloway:

  1. In response to Iraqi documents with his name on them, he said they were the same documents that were dismissed in the Telegraph libel fiasco as forgeries.

No, they were not the same documents. They were from a different agency (and had different dates) and were not involved with the Telegraph matter at all. He told the Senators to “check their facts” when in fact he was lying through his teeth.

  1. Pointed out that 2 previous documents implicating him were forgeries.

Remember Rathergate? Should Bush be able to say any evidence produced embarassing to him is a forgery because in one instance it was?

For the more discerning viewer here is what actually happened during Galloway’s testimony:

With respect to every single factual allegation made in the report Galloway either affirmed they were true (when such affirmation did not directly hurt him) or refused to answer or gave a non-aswer as a response.

So Galloway factually refuted NOT A SINGLE POINT made in the report.

The only thing he did was throw a lot of rhetoric around, show a lack of understanding about U.S. politics and policies (he made several very inaccurate remarks to Mr Levin for example) and deny everything.

Then he claimed certain documents were forgeries. He has been given these documents to review, and as of yet he hasn’t said, “well my experts have shown these are forgeries.” And if he remains silent it means they weren’t forgeries. He also made the comment that he doesn’t have the ability to determine the validity of a document. That is clearly false, he was involved with a libel trial in which he had to have had some expert show a document was forged to have won, so he obviously knows an expert and how to contact him, or his lawyer does.

The allegations against Galloway rest on linking crooked deals to the Mariam Appeal and linking Galloway to those crooked dealings.

The authenticity of the documents showing impropriety in the Mariam Appeal was questioned by Galloway but he has given us no evidence to back up his questions and he has copies of the documents and can certainly have them looked at to determine whether or not they are forgeries then present that evidence to the world to vet.

The allegation that the Mariam Appeal was used as a conduit was not denied in substance and the question was ducked.

The Zureikat connection was acknowledged but Galloway denied any impropriety and then skillfully skirted around any questions that he might have to answer.

It is obvious that he has spoken to a lawyer who taught him how to respond to the questions so that he would not perjure himself (perjury before Congress = a year in prison, what kind of legal situation that would involve with a British MP I don’t know, but for obvious political reasons Galloway wouldn’t want to be seen as guilty of perjury in the United States.)

Also as for the Mariam Appeal, the Charity Commission (independent regulator of Charities in England and Wales) did a study in 2003 and found no impropriety in the Mariam Appeal.

However this study was conducted in 2003. The Mariam Appeal FYI was began in 1998. In 2003 when the Charity Commission conducted its investigation the charity’s books had been sent to Jordan, and the CC never had access to them nor ever was able to review them. Their entire judgment that “no impropriety” was found is only based on bank account records. So they do not have the full access to make any real determination about a charity and they more or less acknowledge this.

Here’s a link
to the charity commission’s report.

I should have added it is somewhat suspect the books would be locked away in Jordan.

And, factually, the Republicans have not a single shred of evidence that can demonstrate Galloway benefitted personally, which is what is alleged. If there were shady dealings in the charity, it’s not even clear Galloway knew about them. As he has said himself, he’s no less guilty of taking money from donors with the same scrupulousness as those who are accusing him of far more serious offenses. With not a shred of hard evidence. If other facts are embarassing to him for other reaons, and he chose to skirt them deftly, that still doesn’t make him a profiteer of the sort the Republicans wish us to believe. I see no reason to think it isn’t a smear campaign, given the integrity of his accusers. If they come up with some actual evidence, I’ll change my mind. Until then, I’m glad they got some irrelevant rhetoric thrown in their faces. It’s the least the pack of warring liars should have to put up with.