They were probably both hammered. It complicates things.
Why did you leave out the most pertinent part of his statement?
Whats weakly worded about clearly stating that it never happened?
I can see why you are concerned with the presumption of guilt, and it makes me uncomfortable too. But I don’t understand why you think this kind of behavior is no big deal. I wish you would stick to the first point instead of minimizing the behaviors in question. It’s not fair to people who have been genuinely hurt by similar acts.
Even a “bit player” can be influential in a “I can get you work in this town” way.
potential future victims who may end up not being victimized. Hopefully the spectre of banishment and having your life’s work tossed in the rubbish bin- no matter how “big” a name you are- might disincentivize these guys from misusing their influence and power in the future.
Let me get this out of the way first. Criminal sexual contact is a crime of the 4th degree. If the victim is incapacitated it becomes aggravated criminal sexual contact which is a crime of the 3rd degree.
The law in New Jersey states the conditions for incapacitation are:
The key phrase to answer your question is “Knew or should have known.” So there is a burden of proof for the prosecution to provide evidence that the actor had knowledge of the incapacitation or wasn’t ignoring obvious signs.
Thanks, Loach. Do you know how things work when both parties are highly intoxicated? I’ve always wondered about this. My thinking is that if you’re able to initiate sex, you aren’t incapacitated… But can you be too drunk to know someone is incapacitated?
You’re right. I’m going to pretend he added that sentence later so I don’t think I’m losing my mind. He had two sentences in his statement addressing the accusation.
Maybe it’s just me and the fact that I’ve interviewed too many rapists.
Someone asking a rapist: “Did you touch that child?”
Rapist: “I am shocked you would even ask that question! I find all life sacred and would never hurt a child! I don’t know why…”
Someone asking a non-rapist: “Did you touch that child?”
Non-rapist: “No!”
I’m not saying I necessarily disbelieve him but I don’t care if Brad supports him. Or if he’s said the right things in the past. Fluff. Address the accusations clear and to the point and that’s it if you want to make a strong statement.
So, the new normal is a bit player in a tv show can’t date and have a normal social life?
These two met, exchanged phone numbers and went on a date. Dates often end with hooking up. If your date says No then you stop. The US had a on-going Ad campaign (PSA) that “No means No!” for many years.
Now people want to label inappropriately touching their date sexual assualt?
You do realize what I described applies to every one of us? Anyone that has dated, will occasionally misread the signals from the other person. That’s especially true when booze is involved.
That’s why the No means No campaign got started. You have to respect someone’s desire to stop.
I’m my experience which is limited to my cases that’s a case that would be close to impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt without corroborating evidence.
Can we go back to 2016 when the celebrities we loved were just dropping dead instead?
To clarify, what would be impossible to prove? That the perpetrator didn’t know the victim was incapacitated? Or that the sexual assault took place at all?
I’m just thinking, “I don’t remember, I was too drunk” is probably a pretty common response to sexual assault allegations with incapacitated persons. Is that response likely to prevent the case from going to trial?
Oh, no problem.
However, since someone on another thread said that if Louis CK apologized, she would not judge his sincerity, but would go by whether his victims accepted it or not, it’s fair to hold you to the same standard. And so when I have received notice that every man on this message board has accepted your apology, then I will also.
And thusly, we transition into Phase II of this mishegas, as scripted, The War Between The Sexes.
It’s not even the war between the sexes anymore.
Quite a few of these allegations are against gay men.
I’m still waiting for the first female celebrity to get accused of groping her female assistant.
Sexual desire of any kind is the new evil. Regardless of circumstances or proof of illegal intent.
It’s a disservice to the very serious cases of sexual assualt and rape.
ETA, too late to do an actual edit, my post was replying to Tim. R. Mortiss’ post about accusation seeming to equal guilt. I was trying to say that in other recent cases, yeah it hasn’t gone to trial so it’s accusations rather than a legal determination of guilt, but due to the number of accusers it’s common sense to believe that something’s gone afoul.
In Takei’s case, it’s still just one. It also runs contrary to his public persona, so I want to see how things develop before I start hating on him.
Ugh, really?
that may be the “conservative” talking point opinion. I’d say it’s more like “y’know what, just because you’re attracted to someone doesn’t mean you can just take what you want.”
It depends on the state. Seriously. Just like in some states, having a reasonable belief (such as meeting someone in a bar) that a person is of age is a defense to statutory rape (Indiana) and in other states it is not (New York).
The single most useful solution that could happen would be a federal Commission for Sexual Allegations for Truth and Justice to summon and interrogate all suspected persons and victims — rather like that senator’s investigation into the Mafia and a similar one into Comic Books, and of course those various investigations into suspected Russian Involvement and their dancing trolls ( Never more apposite at this present day ! ) during the immediate post-war decades,
Sitting on a dais, as each came forward and kowtowed, under a portrait of Tail-Gunner Joe to your left and Savonarola to your left, with Donald Trump painted as Satan above, you would not only judge the quick and the dead, but hear confessions and grant absolutions.
And for those who’re are found unworthy, how terrible a fate is theirs !
You have stuck out in my mind for years as someone who routinely goes out of your way to make things more difficult for “actual” survivors of sexual assault and rape, so your pretend empathy for me and other “real” victims means nothing.
Also, in the other cases, the people have owned up to it, in however a cowardly way they might have done it (Kevin Spacey), but Takei, in the current environment, Takei is denying it, makes me wonder.
And yeah, taking “No” for an answer is a good point. The creep who kept trying to feel me up in the library when I was 15 was not taking the hint when I was trying to use body language and circumlocution, but as soon as I gave him a firm “No,” he left. That’s why on the balance, I don’t really think I was assaulted. My personal space was violated, and I was seriously creeped out, but I don’t think a crime was committed. (Especially since there were reasons he could reasonably have thought I was 18.)
Someone can make you have a really bad day without actually committing a crime against you.
It depends on the prosecutor too. Some are more willing to take on cases that they feel they might lose than others.