Get off the road. No really. I mean it. Before you kill people.

[clayton_e]

I knew someone about a year ago who’s mother would occasionally “black out” and wake up some 20-100 miles from here. She’d be going about 2 miles to the store to pick up milk or something and wake up 1 to 10 towns over.

I don’t know what condition she had but she was diagnosed and medicated. Well, she was supposed to be medicated. The cost of the medicine was too much (I haven no idea if the copay was too high or if she just didn’t have insurance… She complained about the cost of the 50 cent local newspaper and such things).

Her family’s excuse was that oh well if she got lost… She managed to go 100+ miles a few times and didn’t even get a traffic ticket. She just called us scared and asked us to come get her. Having a senior moment is all…

FUCK THAT.

I walk everywhere (about two miles to work each day around city traffic). I DEMAND that the people driving around me have knowledge of where they are and what they’re doing.

I don’t want to be the mess on the sidewalk that results in the first ticket she gets when she goes off into never never land.
Someone in her distant family called the police (the immediate family is all behind her, sans my friend) who stopped in and talked to her but she denied ever having problems and said that family member was trying to get ahold of her estate or something. Cop couldn’t prove anything.

Anyway, she’s still driving and since then has had a few more of those “whoops!” moments and ended up an hour away from her two minute away destination.

:mad:

[Rigamarole]

@Lynn_Bodoni

Sometimes I think that we need at least two classes of adult citizens…those who are allowed to drive, and vote, and generally perform all the actions of an adult, because, you know, they generally ACT like adults. And then the second class of adult citizens would not be allowed to do certain things, or they’d have to have a keeper with them when doing some things. Because they don’t act like adults. While I feel sorry that Sally has these headaches and a drug dependency, I certainly do not want her anywhere NEAR me when she’s driving.

Well we do. You can have your license suspended or revoked, which is about as much as the state can do to disallow a person from driving. If someone chooses to ignore this and drive anyway, the state can’t really do anything (until they get caught). Voting rights can be revoked too once you commit a felony.

Also some people don’t like being called “second-class citizens”, which I learned recently thanks to Prop 8.

[Ethilrist]

@Jeff_Lichtman

Is it possible that her doctor did turn her in, and that she’s driving on a suspended license?

Actually, oxymoronically enough, you don’t really have to have a driver’s license at all to drive, so long as you’re never caught doing anything wrong.

[Casserole]

@Lynn_Bodoni

Sometimes I think that we need at least two classes of adult citizens…those who are allowed to drive, and vote, and generally perform all the actions of an adult, because, you know, they generally ACT like adults. And then the second class of adult citizens would not be allowed to do certain things, or they’d have to have a keeper with them when doing some things…

Heeeeere’s your sign.

[GusNSpot]

That is funny. I have my sign !!! *::: preen ::: *

[Solfy]

I discussed the situation with my spouse last night after he related Sally’s most recent trip to the doctor’s office 45 miles away. Of course she drove, even though Idiot Friend rode shotgun.
Highlights of the conversation:
Lots of people drive worse than she does.
—That doesn’t make it any more legal.
Plenty of people drive drunk or stoned all the time and don’t have wrecks.
—So you’re saying it’d be okay with you if I went and got lit and took a drive?
Besides, it’s none of my business.
—But it will be when she hits and kills your sister and nephew who live nearby.
Right, like that’s going to happen. Besides, what am I supposed to do?
—You could let the police in the area know what’s going on.
It’s not my problem.

Tomorrow Idiot Friend has a custody hearing. We suspect the ex-wife may already know what’s going on - their son is old enough to tattle. I’m curious to hear the outcome.
My husband did ask Idiot Friend if the doctor had pulled Sally’s license, and Idiot claims he did not.
I searched for a tip line or some way to alert the state or local police but came up blank. However, I have an uncle who is assistant police chief in the next township over. Everyone knows everyone around there. I haven’t spoken with him for a while. I think it’s time for a friendly phone call.

[Enemy]

Regarding finding anonomous tip lines, try looking up Crisis Management, and if that doesn’t work, try suicide helplines. I know they don’t seem like the correct places to call bit they can probably point you in the right direction. It can be hit or miss though, so if the first person you speak with is not helpful, wait until shift change and try again.

[PaulParkhead]

My wife is from PA, and has a seizure disorder. She’s actually pretty certain that she did once seize while driving, but thankfully she only destroyed a FedEx box. Of course, when that happened she wasn’t aware of her disorder - she stopped driving as soon as she realised and hasn’t been behind the wheel since.

Anyhow, point being that her doctor told her that he was obliged to report this to PENNDot. A week or two later she got a letter from them informing them of the suspension of her license. If Sally’s doctor hasn’t done so, perhaps you could contact them?

[chorpler]

@Risha

However, I feel that I must note that despite its reputation and street use, a handful of OxyContin, for people in bad enough pain that they actually need it, doesn’t necessarily make you stoned. My mom always declines prescriptions for it because it’s not strong enough compared to Darvocet and Percocet, and my dad spent years on large daily doses of both the extended and immediate release forms in order to control his pain. (He eventually stopped driving, but it was for vision reasons, not medication.)

Absolutely true. It’s likely the seizures that are the real danger here. People who are in severe pain, and also long-term addicts in many cases, generally don’t get “stoned” from taking opioids. Methadone maintenance patients, who often take daily doses of methadone that would be lethal to non-opioid-tolerant people, can usually drive just fine.

Of course, if this woman is faking and is taking the Oxycontins just to get a buzz, then she could well be intoxicated. But it’s not a given.

[Cat_Whisperer]

Could we have a doctor weigh in on this? Laws against impaired driving include driving while overtired or not fully functional due to over-the-counter or prescription medication. There is a warning on the bottle of Tylenol 3 I have at home warning people not to operate heavy equipment (including driving) while taking it. I find it really hard to believe that you are perfectly fine to drive a car while on a medication like Oxycontin. If you are such a heavy user that you don’t feel stoned while taking it, I still find it hard to believe that you aren’t impaired for driving purposes.

[chorpler]

@featherlou

Could we have a doctor weigh in on this? Laws against impaired driving include driving while overtired or not fully functional due to over-the-counter or prescription medication. There is a warning on the bottle of Tylenol 3 I have at home warning people not to operate heavy equipment (including driving) while taking it. I find it really hard to believe that you are perfectly fine to drive a car while on a medication like Oxycontin. If you are such a heavy user that you don’t feel stoned while taking it, I still find it hard to believe that you aren’t impaired for driving purposes.

I don’t blame you for being skeptical, but it’s true. See, for instance, this DOT page about methadone (methadone and Oxycontin are both heavy-duty long-term opioids, so they should have similar effects):

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/methadone.htm

To quote (bolded parts generally mine, except the two headings):

Performance Effects: In general, laboratory studies have shown that non-tolerant individuals receiving single doses of methadone have produced dose-dependent reductions in reaction time, visual acuity, information processing, and sedation. Significant psychomotor impairments are seldom evident when tolerant subjects have been tested, including performance deficits in reaction time, attention, and peripheral vision. In the majority of experimental clinical trials, psychophysical performance tests have yielded the same results for methadone substitution patients as for control groups. However, variable results have been observed. Attention and perception tasks have been impaired in methadone maintenance patients, but sociodemographic factors may have played a role. In patients receiving 35-85 mg methadone daily, significant impairment was measured on attention, perception and learning tasks but there was no reaction time deficit. In patients receiving a daily average of 63 mg methadone, significant impairment in distance perception, attention span and time perception was observed. No significant adverse effects were measured with addicts stabilized for at least 1 year on daily oral doses of methadone.

Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer cautions that methadone may impair the mental and/or physical abilities required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks, and that the sedative effects of the drug may be enhanced by concurrent use of other CNS depressants, including alcohol. In healthy, non-methadone using volunteers, single doses of methadone will impair driving ability. Numerous European studies of long-term methadone maintenance patients have shown that appropriately administered methadone does not cause significant psychomotor or cognitive impairment when administered regularly and when the subject abstains from all other drugs. However, in the majority of cases, patients did not exhibit stable abstinence from drug use and had an increased occurrence of simultaneous psychiatric/neurotic disorders or personality disturbances which, by themselves, could be a reason to doubt their driving ability. In Germany, the Joint Advisory Council for Traffic Medicine at the Federal Ministry of Transport, Building and Housing and the Federal Ministry for Health issued the following recommendation: Heroin addicts treated with methadone are generally not fit to drive; however, these patients may be considered fit to drive if they show a period of methadone substitution for more than a year; stable psychosocial integration; no evidence of the consumption of additional psychotropic substances; evidence of a subject’s readiness to feel responsible for himself/herself; therapy compliance; and no evidence of serious personality defects.

So, pretty much what I said.

[Snickers]

@chorpler

Of course, if this woman is faking and is taking the Oxycontins just to get a buzz, then she could well be intoxicated. But it’s not a given.

Nope, it’s not. However, the fact that her doctor is sending her to a pain clinic for her drug needs makes me think that he’s twigged onto the fact that Sally’s Oxycontins might not be medically necessary. It’s definitely true that if she legitimately needs them for pain, she’s probably not getting high off them, but I’m doubting that’s the case here.

[chorpler]

@Snickers

Nope, it’s not. However, the fact that her doctor is sending her to a pain clinic for her drug needs makes me think that he’s twigged onto the fact that Sally’s Oxycontins might not be medically necessary. It’s definitely true that if she legitimately needs them for pain, she’s probably not getting high off them, but I’m doubting that’s the case here.

In my experience, most general doctors are uncomfortable prescribing opioids long-term and prefer to send chronic pain patients to a pain clinic that specializes in that sort of thing.

Of course, the fact that Sally is prone to seizures means she needs to get off the road regardless of what her medication does to her mental state and reaction times.

[Snickers]

@chorpler

Of course, the fact that Sally is prone to seizures means she needs to get off the road regardless of what her medication does to her mental state and reaction times.

This is absolutely true.

[Risha]

@chorpler

In my experience, most general doctors are uncomfortable prescribing opioids long-term and prefer to send chronic pain patients to a pain clinic that specializes in that sort of thing.

Yes, it’s absolutely de rigeur for doctors to send all of their high-pain patients to a pain clinic sooner or later. Most are uncomfortable leaving a patient on opiates permanently. And, unfortunately, a single doctor prescribing lots of opiates over a long period of time, even/especially if they’re in a specialty that means that they have a lot of patients in a lot of pain, is like waving a red flag at the authorities to investigate them frequently, which is a pain in the ass.

@chorpler

Of course, the fact that Sally is prone to seizures means she needs to get off the road regardless of what her medication does to her mental state and reaction times.

Absolutely.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@chorpler

I don’t blame you for being skeptical, but it’s true. See, for instance, this DOT page about methadone (methadone and Oxycontin are both heavy-duty long-term opioids, so they should have similar effects):

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/methadone.htm

To quote (bolded parts generally mine, except the two headings):

So, pretty much what I said.

Your cite mentions opioids being “appropriately administered”. The OP gives the impression that Sally is popping them like candy.

[chorpler]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Your cite mentions opioids being “appropriately administered”. The OP gives the impression that Sally is popping them like candy.

“Popping them like candy” can be perfectly consistent with “appropriate administration.” Heck, some chronic pain patients take tens of thousands of milligrams of morphine every day and can still drive.

Again, that may very well not be the case here.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@chorpler

“Popping them like candy” can be perfectly consistent with “appropriate administration.” Heck, some chronic pain patients take tens of thousands of milligrams of morphine every day and can still drive.

Again, that may very well not be the case here.

While I agree that we’re quibbling over narco-dependency and it’s relevant effects, other posters have reconfirmed that the seizures themselves are the primary issue, and…they are. Popping Oxycontin on top of that scenario just makes one even more leery. And there’s a kid being driven around, a scenario in which the father of the child deems to be a non-issue. That sucks.

[Solfy]

Daily update: The mother doesn’t seem to know about the driving situation. Her sole complaint at the custody hearing was the fact that the son doesn’t have his own bed when he’s staying with his father. Since the father is living in his mother’s 2-bedroom trailer, the son was sharing the second bedroom with him. When the girlfriend moved in, the son got kicked to the couch.
The father’s defense?
It’s a sofa bed. That makes it okay.

This wouldn’t be so heinous if this was a temporary thing, but he figures he’ll be staying there two or three years. Having to pay living expenses cuts into his buying-girlfriends-expensive-jewelry funds, plus there’s the whole frequently quitting jobs thing. Nothing says “hot” like a 40yr old unemployed broke guy living in his mama’s trailer.

Meanwhile the judge found out that while the mother claimed she’s living with her parents, she’s really staying with a boyfriend. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but she lied about her address and tried to hide it. They found the boyfriend’s mailing address listed as his residence in the son’s medical files.

Poor kid.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

While I agree that we’re quibbling over narco-dependency and it’s relevant effects, other posters have reconfirmed that the seizures themselves are the primary issue, and…they are. Popping Oxycontin on top of that scenario just makes one even more leery. And there’s a kid being driven around, a scenario in which the father of the child deems to be a non-issue. That sucks.

Agreed. If the only point of contention was her being hopped up on oxycontin, there might be a point to continuing the discussion, but as everyone has said, her constant seizures are the real issue. I withdraw my concerns about the oxycontin issue (yeah, I know, you were all waiting with bated breath for that. )

I think the mother has a right to know about her child being put in serious danger. This isn’t a personal preference issue, like feeding the child fewer vegetables than the mother might like.

And for the record, I don’t find anything amusing about the friend or his girlfriend. They both sound like wastes of perfectly good skin to me.