Get out of my face, you stupid religious cult!

I live in an area with a high population of a certain religous cult who are always trying to recruit on the streets. I’ve made it a fun pasttime to outtalk them, using their own doctrine (Didn’t Jesus say he was the son of man? Which man? sort of thing).

Today, they get in my face, and I just snapped. Here is a group that won’t salute the flag, won’t sing patriotic songs, won’t even donate blood (though their belief is not to take blood; their religion says nothing about giving it) and have done nothing to help the WTC disaster.

These days, if you’re not for us, you’re against us as far as I am concern. I pointed out that I didn’t need to know how wonderful things were going to be. That’s like an abusive husband beating his wife and telling her it’s going to stop. I also pointed out that the attacks have united the world more than their religion ever has or will.

They backed away from me.

Annnie -

I’ll back away from you too because you have just condemned an entire group of people based on their religious beliefs.
I would bet everything I own on the fact that they too grieve, that they have lost loved ones, and are doing what they can to help.

It’s this kind of attitude that has caused the situation we’re in now, I don’t think we really need any more.

No, I don’t buy that. This cult supports only themselves, and believes they have the only truth, and everyone else is wrong. They have the same type of fanaticism that caused this situation. When I told them that, they accused me of calling them terrorists (which I did not).

The thing that causes these atrocities is the believe that only your group is right, and everyone else is wrong. All cults are based on this belief. Anytime any individual and/or group expresses this idea, I am frightened. It is simply very dangerous to see the world in this black/white way.

Errrr, I hope you see the irony there, Annie. Your clearly firm and unwavering hatred for people based on their religion seems to me to be looking at things in the very way you decry.

No irony. I simply cannot stand people who thing they have the only “true” religion, and everone else is wrong. Religion is what you believe; not something you know. Other people have other, equally valid beliefs. Not recognizing this causes the major debates and destruction of the world.

At the risk of turning this into something more suited for GD, I’d like to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with believing that your religion is the only “true” religion. In fact, the idea of one’s religion being the only “truth” is something that most of the world’s major religions was founded upon. I’ll even go so far as to say that I don’t mind it when people try to convert me, as long as they do so in a respectable manner. After all, in their view, they’re just trying to keep you from going to Hell. Frankly, I’d be offended if they just decided to let me burn ;).

Denying them the right–at least, in your own head–to hold exclusive beliefs shows a lack of allowing people to have “other, equally valid beliefs.” Just because you may believe that every religion holds part of the truth, or that it doesn’t matter what religion you are as long as you’re a good person, or that all religions are a steaming hunk of manure. . .that doesn’t mean that they have to believe the same thing. The very nature of their beliefs negates that concept.

People with exclusive beliefs are not inherently dangerous. People with exclusive beliefs, a violent temperment, a will to kill…those are the ones who you have to watch out for. Not the ones who are trying to convert you in the street.

As for this particular religious group. . .I don’t like them very much. My own, personal, human failing here. However, I’m sure that some of their own died last week, and that the families, friends, and community of those said dead are turning to their faith, as many people are now (Not me, I’m still an agnostic, for the record). Yes, their faith entails a certain lack of patriotism. . .but they’re hurting, too. Don’t expect them to give up their faith just because it goes against your perception–and my perception, to some extent–of patriotic duty.

They’re not going to bomb us. They’re not after us. If they were, that would be one thing. But they’re not. They’re not even violent. They aren’t waging a crusade. Just leave them be.

So why, then, is that particular faith a “cult?” Aren’t their beliefs valid?

uhhhhhh…we talking about Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Annie, do you mind naming names?

Right now, I can only guess that you’re talking about Jehovah’s Witnesses. While there are certain things in the JW belief structure that I find implausible or objectionable personally, they are not a cult. Most JWs I’ve met are kind, good-natured, and intelligent. They don’t deserve to be tarred with the same brush you’re using on the people who harrass you every day.

Whoever they are, I wish they’d reconsider their actions in the light of this tragedy. Recruiting on the street corner may satisfy their emotional needs, but it doesn’t help anyone else a whole lot.

Misanthropic, much?

phouka said:

I think that they do think it helps people. Gives them support from God and whatnot during these trying times. And I say this as an affirmed atheist who really does not care to be hassled - er, “saved”.

[quote]
These days, if you’re not for us, you’re against us as far as I am concern.

[QUOTE]

Just thought it would be nice to see those two quotes next to each other. Guess which one I agree with?

Please be so kind as to identify your opinion as such when you state it as a fact. Works wonders.

Yeah. Terrible of someone to actually go out and practice his religion (which you, ever so diplomatically, refer to as a cult) in a country which guarantees his right to do exactly that, isn’t it?

One would think that a mere “thanks, not interested” would be enough. That has always worked for me. Now, I also have friends who are members of different religious groups, and we do manage, among ourselves, to discuss what the teachings and differences, as we understand them, are. You might want to try that sometime.

So, do you always ask questions to which you will not listen to the answer? Kind of odd discussion, if you ask me. Sounds more like a diatribe.

Please be so kind as to define “in your face.” I’m willing to bet all the poor folks did was ask you a question about their group along thelines of “are you interested in hearing about…?” A simple “no, thanks” works for me almost every time. Only time it didn’t work was when someone asked me if he could pray for me. I told him yes & it turned out he wanted me to be there with him while he prayed. I politely informed him he was more than welcome to pray for me in his absence. He said he would. Kind of nice of him, I guess.

The flag and patriotic songs are nationalistic emblems and, as such, are prohibited to members of certain faith groups. It’s a shame the leaders of said group forgot to ask for your approval of their doctrine before they founded the group, isn’t it?

You see, their religion most likely forbids assisting others in committing what they regard to be a sin. Since consuming blood products in any manner, such as via transfusion, is considered a sin, they are not permitted, by their faith, by their religion, to assist anyone else in committing a sin.

Here’s an analogy for you: say your religion prohibits you from actually killing somebody, but that it does not say that you can not eat the meat from the dead human’s carcass. Just that you can not do the killing yourself.

This analogy is directly on point because the faith group in question, essentially, considers the consumption of blood via any method as equivalent, if not equal, to consuming the carcass of the human in the analogy.

And exactly how do you know this? Are there ore are there not JW firefighters? I don’t know but since fighting fires isn’t swearing allegiance to a nation, I can guess that this is a profession (or volunteer service) not denied to them by their faith. Are they or are they not praying for the folks killed, missing, searching, etc. in the wake of the tragedy? Is not praying, according to some faiths, doing something for those people?

So it is you and not the Constitution and the laws of the land which decide how things work? Thanks for informing us of this fact.

Maybe you didn’t, but there actually are people who not only do need to know this but are happy to have someone tell them this. And the poor individual practicing his religion (his constitutionally protected right, mind you) had no way of knowing the extent of your prejudice to that right.

No, it is not. That would only be true if the poor guy practicing his religion in your presence actually was one of the terrorists involved in that terrible crime.

And you were mistaken. This is turning into a great polarizing issue and not a unifying one.

Do you suppose that’s because you were right or merely because they wanted to distance themselves from irrational viotrol?