I don’t know why you can’t understand what I am saying, so there. You, either through internal bias or something else, keep changing the meaning of what I am saying. It’s right there in black and white.
Where does that say anything about “self-appointed standard”? His contention, as I interpreted it, was that exceeding the limit made people’s driving “unsafe”, not illegal. It’s obviously illegal.
Speed limits are set with a “cushion” of safety. They are usually set as they are KNOWING that people will exceed them. Exceeding the limit, in and of itself, is not inherently unsafe. (Ignoring weather, traffic, etc. In some cases, driving 35 in a 70 is unsafe. We are not talking about those times.) In a normal, clear day, with normal traffic, on a typical interstate highway, speeding 5 mph over the limit is not “unsafe”. It is, as noted, illegal, and can get you a ticket.
No, you are breaking the law in 45 out of 50 states and creating an unsafe driving environment. You simply cannot see that you are in the wrong with your driving practices.
Yes, AnthonyElite, when you get rearended by the 100 mph driver, the accident is almost entirely his fault. You can have your tombstone read:
I HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY
But in the real world, the closing speeds are not that high, and impeding the “flow of traffic”, even if that flow is illegal, is also illegal. Many unsafe traffic situations are not caused by speed alone, but the differential of speed. So it is also important to keep everyone moving along smoothly.
In the ideal world, all cars would move at the optimal speed for conditions, maintaining a proper distance, and not make any bad moves. But we don’t, and we have you, and truckers who seem to enjoy pulling out in front of a line of cars and passing very sloooowly, AND the 100 mph speed demons, to thank for that.
Two good rules to drive by - keep right except to pass, and don’t sweat the jerks on the road. Maybe they’ll get their comeuppance, maybe not. But it’s not your worry. Let it go. Practice zen calmness.
Nowhere. That’s why I said it made perfect sense (assuming just for the sake of argument that you are a qualified engineer and that you quoted AE accurately, both of which I doubt). That’s why I said it had nothing to do with calling him a self-appointed arbiter.
But since that arbiter remark was my only beef with you, and since I never said that speeding is intrinsically unsafe, I can only assume that you put that in your response to me because you think your opinion about speeding somehow justifies what you said about AE being a self-appointed arbiter, and causing road rage.
Well, IMO it doesn’t. You may or may not be correct about highway engineering, but it has nothing to do with my beef with you, which was about the arbiter thing. If you’ve dropped that, then fine, we’re done, and thank you for the unsolicited information about your opinions on highway engineering.
Here on the Long Island part of Long Island, as opposed to the NYC part (Brooklyn and Queens), there is the Long Island Expressway, the Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway and a series of Parkways that preceded those. Trucks and buses were never permitted on the Parkways, and the deliberately designed low bridges routinely decapitate out of state trucks whose drivers miss all the signs and/or have driven “Parkways” in other states that do permit commercial traffic.
The Long Island Expressway was built for higher speeds and to include truck traffic. IIRC, the speed limit was 60 when you crossed the border from NYC to LI. Years later, when they extended it further eastward, the new section had a 65 mph limit, due to better design as well as less traffic. They also added the North/South Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway and that was also 65.
With the 1973 “Oil Crisis”, speed limits were lowered to 55 with very few exceptions. Ironic that the roads conservatively designed for 65 now had the same 55 mph speed limit as those designed for 40 mph.
When the “Oil Crisis” was no longer, they kept all those same speed limits. The Southern State Parkway has a section called Blood Alley for the amount of fatal accidents there due to unqualified drivers going way too fast for the conditions.
On the eastern stretches of the Long Island Expressway, traffic routinely moves safely at 75. Yet it’s the same (too low) 55 limit as on the (too high) Parkways. This is one incompetent “group of engineers”.
More dangerous than speed per se, is the disparity of speed, mixing fast and slow drivers, especially when the mix includes people that are clueless about keep right to pass, accelerate to highway speed when merging and other rules of the road.
In my experience, in bumper to bumper traffic, it moves in a stop and go pattern. If all cars were to leave space and keep it at 15, or slower, if necessary, than that would be the most efficient way for the traffic to flow.
Stop it. The link you posted says only 29 states require you to move over if you’re going slower than normal traffic. And this more detailed link has links to the actual state codes. I didn’t look at them all, but all of the dozen or so I checked had exceptions for passing.
Here’s the code from the first three “move-over” states from your link, in alphabetical order, emphasis added. Looks like they all copied from the same basic source, so it’s probably the same for all the others:
Alabama:
(b) Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
Arizona:
B. On all roadways, a person driving a vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall drive the vehicle in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
California:
21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any
vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be
driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable
to the right-hand edge or curb,** except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction** or when preparing
for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or
driveway.
No, it’s 45 states. 29 are must move over if driving slower than normal traffic, 10 other states where the left lane is only for making a left turn or passing, and 6 more for must move over if blocking traffic. Keep right except to pass.
All states allow you to use the left lane while passing a car in the right lane, but passing is not what AnthonyElite is talking about. He has been talking about camping out in the left lane with cruise control set a couple miles an hour higher than the car he is overtaking. That is not passing, it is obstructing traffic and being a lousy driver.
I hate it when it’s three in the morning and the street lights are not on… So the lady in the house dress and flip flops has to slowly walk across the street (sometimes with three slow small children in tow). Visions of a prison sentence for killing her (accidentally) float in my mind. Makes me madder than hell. She deserves it if she gets hurt but I don’t deserve jail because she’s stupid!
It is passing. I don’t have to fit YOUR definition of passing. The literal definition of passing involves me moving faster than traffic on the right. It doesn’t involve some dickhead coming up behind me and insisting I get over so they can pass first. It isn’t a race, or a racetrack. It is first come first serve. If I have the opportunity to pass, I do so. I don’t wait for every asshole in the world that wants to break the law to drive like a douchbag just so that I can have my turn.
Civil Engineer/Highway Construction Resident Engineer checking in here. Up thread some have mentioned that highways are designed for speeds greater than the posted speed limits; they are correct. Speed limits are set by governing agencies, often based upon factors other than or in addition to the roadway geometry/design. Designs are typically based upon worst case scenarios with a factor of safety or two on top of that. In most cases (there are always exceptions), you would have to exceed the posted speed limit by a significant amount (40% or even more) before you approach being unsafe*.
assuming the light traffic volume & reasonable weather conditions.
One Sunday afternoon, I was driving on the Interstate, and all my “pet peeves” were at play.
The interstate leading into Hartford, CT, from the East has three lanes for a long stretch. In the Middle lane, people were moving at about 70, with occasional lulls at 65. In the left lane (fast/passing lane), was a long line of traffic, stuck behind a dope doing 60, who moved out of the middle lane. In the Right lane were maniacs weaving around the at 85-90+, slowing down the middle lane as people slam their brakes as they barge in around a respectable slow driver in the correct, right most lane.
And traffic volumes are very low because it’s Sunday, but I am still being tailgated. :smack:
I have a major driving pet peeve I haven’t seen listed yet. I live in a woodsy/suburban area that has a lot of curving roads and a fair amount of traffic, and inevitably on the curves someone drifts across the double yellow line over into my lane. It’s often because they are driving too fast, but sometimes I can see them talking on the phone. Occasionally I see both.
Lately I guess I’ve become an asshole, because now when that happens I wait until they’re right next to me and I honk the shit out of my horn. That’s probably dangerous, right? I tell myself I’m doing it to help protect the next driver who comes along, but in reality I’m just giving into road rage.
I’m most certainly not a slow driver but there are situations where even I will get tailgated by someone wanting to go faster. I never hog the lane unnecessarily and I complete my manoeuvre at my own pace and as quickly as possible but if you tailgate me while I’m doing it I will reduce my speed, not go faster.
Know why?
Because travelling 10 feet behind me at 80 is much, much more dangerous (to me and you) than doing so at 70 or even slower. So if you don’t back off I reserve the right to improve the safety of my situation by slowing down.
Anyone who doesn’t appreciate this is pretty much by definition a bad driver as giving yourself time and space to react is pretty much priority no 1.
You have no direct control over what speed another car is driving, you do have the ability to remain a safe distance away from them.
Yes, the person driving too slow for the conditions is an arsehole, but if you tailgate them you are an arsehole squared because now even you are going too slow for the conditions and you are inches from their bumper.
If you notice that your windshield is dirty right about then and if you have windshield washer fluid in your reservoir, you could always clean it. If the guy behind you slows down, maybe he’s realized this his is dirty too.
As for Novelty I agree that tailgating is bad, but your logic is very flawed. Read what you quoted… “they slow down to make me pay for my rudeness. I’m even closer to their butts”
Lets say they don’t get even closer… they will stay the same and 10 feet isn’t enough space at 80 or at 70, and unless you plan to get down to around 15 mph you will not hit the point where it is safe. By slowing down it is now going to be a much longer time that you are putting yourself (and themselves) in danger. Doesn’t it make more sense to minimize the time you are in danger and either maintain your speed or speed up?
Whenever I see a dangerous driver for whatever reason I like to put as much space between them and me as possible. If they are behind me that means to speed up, pull over, or both.
For the Count… do you really think a few drops of mist that flies over your windshield is going to make someone slow down? If it happens to me I move a finger over and turn on my wipers for a second. Now if you have those tacks, oil slicks, or machine guns like 007 does that is effective.
Again, I agree that tailgating is wrong and I don’t do it. But if I’m seen coming up in the passing lane at a faster rate than you and you are taking an extreme amount of time to pass a car, I would greatly appreciate it if you would speed up 3 or 4 mph and pull over when safe to let me pass rather than slowing down so it takes even longer because you somehow think it is a challenge to your man/womanhood if someone is going faster than you are.
It depends how long the manoeuvre is going to take of course, that’s one of the variables I chuck into the mix when making a decision what to do.
However, anyone already up my arse-end is going to remain there no matter what I speed up to so I’d rather take 30 seconds longer to pass the line of traffic than do it in half the time at over 90 still with a knob-end a car length behind.
But don’t think that the difference between 70 and 80 is insignificant when it comes to reaction times or energy values, it certainly isn’t
It isn’t a challenge to me, it is a matter of safety. Speeding up a small amount to clear the way is fine and I do that all the time, however, if you get an unsafe distance behind me in the first place then there is only one of us that is somehow feeling challenged.
