I’m an atheist. Born and raised. So this morning when I saw the headline in the paper about “Anti-evolution theories” being taught more and more in US schools, I was disturbed. I should have known better than to grumble aloud. But of course right then the biggest fucking Jesus freak in the building has to walk by and ask me what’s wrong. So I told him. And what does he say? That I have to examine my faith in God. Excuse me, asshole, but go fuck yourself.
I said that evolution is not a matter of opinion, it is a scientific fact. You can go to school and study actual hard facts and evidence about evolution. It is just like the whole “earth is round” thing - it doesn’t matter whether you want to believe it or not, it is true. First he argued that evolution in animals may be true, but that God created man. Than he said that man evolved a little after god created him, because he got taller and his brain enlarged, etc. WTF?!?!?! Look, asshole, evolution theory doesn’t claim to know how life started. That is a mystery to everyone. No schoolbook claims to have the facts regarding how life began. But regardless of how it started, evolution is a fucking fact. Creationism should get a mention in schoolbooks as a theory, fine. About two sentences ought to do it. It should be followed by another two sentences about how space aliens or an asteroid may have deposited life here, and then another two sentences about the mother goddess and how the world sprang forth from her birthwaters. And then two more sentences each for other various theories. Here’s the fucking point: teaching evolution theory is not teaching people lies. It does not claim to know how life began. It is about teaching facts. And it is a fucking fact, regardless of what your favorite book has to say about it. May I remind you that this is the same book that told us that the world was flat, that the sun went around the earth, that man used to live for thousands of years, that women who handle food during their period have tainted it, and so much stupidity that it could, well, fill a book. Your ridiculous religious beliefs do not belong in a schoolbook any more than outright lies do. And you know what? Teaching evolutionary theory does not mean teaching that God doesn’t exist. Evolution as a fact does not disprove your God. Get it through your thick ignorant skull. Oh, and by the way, no rational person is going to object to also teaching about the holes in evolutionary theory. Real scientists don’t ignore the problems in their theories. They confront them and search for enlightenment. There are also holes in molecular theory. There are holes in lots of scientific theories being taught in school. We can only hope that future generations will pursue these mysteries and improve on our theories. WITH FACTS. That you can prove.
I swear, lately I get the feeling that atheists have fewer rights in this country than anyone else. Even our fucking money has the word GOD on it. The fucking pledge of allegiance says God. “God Bless America” at baseball games. Shoved down my throat everywhere I go. Get your blatant stupidity out of my face. Keep it at home and in your church where it belongs. Fuck Jesus. Fuck Allah. Fuck Satan. Fuck it all. I have every right in the world not to believe in any god, gods or goddesses. Let me live here, in peace, free from anyone’s religion. It should be my right as a human being.
I often wish these people were as invisble as the thing they worship.
I’m just posting to see the theological train wreck. I usually come in too late. Now I can see it in action!
::sits back with popcorn and large diet soda, and turns the volume waaaaay up::
All theists are idiots, huh?
You’re not gonna be making any friends with this one…
Atheist get no respect for their views. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying that schools should teach that God doesn’t exist. But they shouldn’t be teaching that God does exist either.
Evolution theory does not prove the non-existence of God. That’s as much respect as you will get from me. Why is it that everyone’s OK with religious people walking all over atheists, but as soon as an atheist makes a single complaint, they pile on to kick them down?
BTW, Dante, if you read the rules for this forum, posts like yours are not allowed.
If they are teaching one creation myth, they should give equal time to all of them. The Aboriginal people of Australia have some good ones that could be taught in American schools, and which are at least as interesting as the creation myth in Genesis.
When either side starts in with me, I say it ultimately doesn’t matter how life started, because you cannot prove to me the world existed before July 31, 1961, 8:30 AM.
The argument usually stumps the evolutionists because they don’t expect it, but it’s caused a few Creationist’s heads to explode spontaneously.
It isn’t your views, dear. It’s that sharp pen you’re weilding. We view our God as you might view your father.
Well, according to the Declaration of Independence, you are endowed by your Creator with certain unalienable Rights. 
Note, however that a San Francisco school has recently barred the Declaration of Independence from being presented.
So you may have the right, but not be told you’ve got it.
How can you prove that the world existed at 9:00 AM on July 31, 1961? Do you have specific memory of it? How about 8:30 AM on August 1, 1961? What about July 31, 1962? 1963? 1964? Or do you use photo’s and goverment documents (like, say, a birth certificate?) to prove that the world actually existed at July 31, 1961, 8:30 AM? What about pictures and documents that supposedy existed before that moment? Do they not carry merit?
Just posting to say that the one bit of solace that I took from the last election was that we voted the damned Creationists off of our school board.
-lv
Touche’, Liberal. However, I needed to let off some steam, thus I placed this in the Pit where I could vent a bit. Some day when I’m feeling more ambitious I’ll try it in GD. For now I’ll stick to vitriolic spewing.
And I don’t expect to make any friends with this thread. Its just extremely frustrating to me that people can’t separate their religion from science (I was about to type truth, that would have been a huge mistake.)
I look at religious people the same way I look at racists. Most of them can’t help that they were taught something like that. And they do have the right to feel the way they do. But they don’t have the right to impose their beliefs on others.
I agree with the first paragraph of the OP. It’s the second paragraph that leaves me cold. You have no grounds for complaint. We aren’t demanding that you BELIEVE. If we want to believe and say so, you will just have to learn to live with that. Freedom of expression and all that.
OMG, first rule too. Totally forgot in my excitement. Well, I guess I’d better saddle up an opinion and get the hell in here.
Ghanima, I agree with you about we atheists not getting any respect for our viewpoints. The thing that seriously pisses me off though, is that I’ve prefaced any discussion I’ve ever had about this with the phrase “I’m perfectly willing to accept the fact that I may be 100% wrong and you may be 100% right”. I try to respect the viewpoints of others, even though some of the more extremist bible thumpers get under my skin good and proper. Doesn’t seem to matter, and I’ve never gotten the same consideration. Now I just tell people it’s none of their business if they ask about my faith.
Mods, apologies for the “pull up the lawnchair” post. Won’t happen again.
Freedom of individual expression, OK, fine. Go ahead and sing that song at the baseball game if you want, I’ll go get a beer. But to put GOD on our money is putting god into our government. To put god into school (not counting private schools), whether it is in a textbook or in the pledge, is putting religion into government. This is wrong. I concede the point about freedom of expression, but this is overstepping the boundaries.
You better get some valium—it’s gonna get a lot worse in the next four years, with the Rev. Bush back in office.
I can understand our primitive forebears creating personifications of natural forces, which they attempted to placate with offerings and rituals in order to exert some control over their own circumstances. Because they didn’t understand climatology, our ancestors invented rain gods who they believed controlled the water that fell from the sky and nourished their crops. But given that we now know that magic people don’t control nature and that the only thing on the other side of the sky is more sky, continued belief in magical deities is just sad.
What’s even sadder is that responsible adults in charge of our nation’s government craft policy in accordance to arbitrary rules set down by a pack of Bronze Age sheep herders.
Well, I agree it’s fine to mention it, but not in a science class as a theory. “Theory” in a scientific context implies a testable hypothesis. “God created it just like it is,” is not testable.
I don’t care if people want to be religious; I can’t reject the notion of God myself. Just don’t pretend it’s science, which has a very clear definition.
Fuck it. I’m sick and tired entrenced political correctness about theism and the inherrent evil it represents. Yes, theists are idiots. Even the smart ones. There is a cultural barrier that tells us we must respect another person’s beliefs, no matter how absurd, because disliking someone for their opinions is wrong. It is taboo to say out loud that religion entirely based on fantasy, that the vast majority of religious history is filled with acts of unspeakable barbarism and cruelty in the name of fallacy, and that people who succumb to its temptations are intellectual dilatantes who are afraid or unwilling to accept the fact that magic is not real. Sound superior? I feel superior to theists in the same way that a tolerant person feels superior to a racist. I feel superior in the sae way that democracy is superior to totalitarianism. Religion, like statism, is backwards, barbaric and foolish, and whether by accident or design is a tool of both exterior and self-opression. Oh no, we can’t say that. Because we have to respect their beliefs. Well, I do not, and I will no longer pretend that I do. I don’t care if it makes me a pariah.
Religion isn’t evil necessarily because of the deeds that religious people commit. Indeed, most of them are perfectly nice individuals. Religion is evil because it specifically necessitates rejection of the very intellect that has driven the development of our society into one of unencumbered technological advancement and scientific discovery. Yes, religious people have contributed immeasurably to the progress of mankind. And they probably could have still done it if they weren’t obsessed with imaginary friends and primitive rituals. Imagine what Isaac Newton could have accomplished if he didn’t spend the last 50 years of his life studying numerology.
It is not enough to say that I disagree with religious beliefs and am therefore an atheist. I both disagree with and vehemetly despise religious belief. I have tremendous respect for the accomplishments of religious people, but I do not now, nor will I ever, respect their beliefs. That is not wrong, nor should it be scandalous to say out loud.
Nice, that about sums it up.