This is my first pit post. It’s also not full of anger and brimstone. I actually feel more…depressed. Maybe that’s too strong a word. Maybe more like a sinking feeling in my stomach.
I got this feeling from reading through a recent ‘evil-ution’ debate on FARK. What a trainwreck. The amount of ignorance is scary. It’s easy to wave it all off as trolls and people ‘typing loudly,’ but this just seems to mirror my personal and social experiences.
Of course, there’s always that random study that comes out every couple of months citing scary statistics about America’s education in basic math and science compared to the rest of the civilized world. Maybe we’ll beat Cyprus some year!..
I’ve only been in college a year, but I am taking a lot of biology courses. The amount of information presented to me about evolution has been quite astounding and the many fields involved makes it ridiculously strong. This isn’t to say before this I didn’t consider evolution valid; quite the opposite. It has only soldified my position and, to be quite honest, to look at those that question it like I look at racists. Or sexists. Not in the sense that they’re terrible human beings…just pathetically ignorant and dense. It shocks me, to be frank. Have you ever met a racist and felt like you were in another world? It just leaves me speechless, like I’m talking to an anachronism.
Like Chris Rock said in regards to women that don’t give head: “They still make you?”
But this is the status quo, not a fringe view (it’s not really even a view, more like a cloud of ignorance spread across the masses). This scares me, to be frank. As I can’t relate to those that reject people due to their skin color I also can not relate to those that don’t see science as a tool to look at and understand the world in which we live.
I’m only 19. I live in Indianapolis. I wonder if my generation will be able to improve this situation we’ve gotten ourselves into.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I’m a Christian, but I’m also majoring in evolutionary biology. I get really frustrated with people who don’t accept evolution. What bugs me most is not that they are ignorant, but that they’re so terribly cocky about it. I had one friend who was a very conservative fundamentalist who got angry at me for commenting on the evolutionary lineage of some species, I can’t remember which one. He continued to spout a whole bunch of nonsense, including, “Evolution is just a theory, and I’ve come to realize that a lot of science is just theory and speculation” and “Darwin admitted it was just a big hoax on his deathbed you know”. Oh and I can’t forget, “It’s been scientifically proven that one species cannot evolve into another one.”
I’m not sure where we went wrong. I have no idea why people still can’t accept evolution as a fact. As far as I’m concerned, the idea that we evolved from ape-like hominids is far more intuitive than, say, the idea that the earth revolves around the sun (which even Creationists seem to accept). There should be some blame to be placed on poor science education, and a lot on modern-day fundamentalist Christianity. I don’t know if our generation (I’m 20) is improving at all; the one friend I mentioned isn’t the only person I know who is my age and refuses to accept the fact of evolution. Actually, I have at least four other friends from high school who were definitely Creationists.
The only solution I can think of is to hire more qualified science teachers for high school and middle school. But even this won’t solve everything. Until fundamentalism starts to lose ground, I doubt we’ll see very many changes in the way Americans view evolution.
I thought the same thing when I was nineteen, bud.
Legalized marijuana. Clothing-optional shopping malls and grocery stores. Home computers that would pretty much run your life for you, if you wanted.
One out of three ain’t bad. I’m forty now. And all the screwheads who were nineteen at the same time I was… well… some of 'em are the ones railing on about how evolution is only a theory.
Stupidity ain’t a function of age. Regrettably, neither is wisdom.
This is a depressing issue. I work with several (well, only one now) young Christian types and it is sadly amusing to hear the absurd lengths they will go to in “debunking” evolution. One striking observation from one of them, during a discussion on the formation of the Earth: “You really think the Earth just swirled together like that; like magic?” Hmmm, and an invisible, all-powerful God poofing the world into existence isn’t akin to magic? :rolleyes:
I have a theory about this - I think people are overloaded and overwhelmed. There is too much information, and things are changing too fast - people can’t keep up, so they’re doing the sociological equivalent of putting their fingers in their ears and going “LalalaIcan’thearyou”. Don’t fear or hate them - feel sorry for them. Actually, fearing them isn’t a bad idea, though, because they fear people like us, and they will eventually find a way to get rid of us because we make them uncomfortable, with all the thinking and all.
mstay Congratulations on you first pit thread and I sure as heck do not think it is weak.
Just this week (as you probably know), the students in Dover, Pennsylvania will be read a statement about “Intelligent Design”.
Link to the news story: http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/19/evolution.debate.ap/index.html
And a quote from the article:
The district is believed to be the only one in the nation to require students to hear about intelligent design – a concept that holds that the universe is so complex, it had to be created by an unspecified guiding force.
The Straight Dope motto is quite applicable here
**“Fighting Ignorance since 1973 - it’s taking longer than we thought”.
**
I get really annoyed when fundamentalists use that “just a theory” bullshit. My reply always is - Relativity is ‘just a theory’ right? Ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki if they think E=mc² is ‘just a theory’.
Another aggravation is that fundamentalists consider science (or secular humanism to use their vernacular) as some kind of agenda to dethrone Christianity. Isn’t it funny that televangelists use things like television to spread the worh of the Lord, even though television is based on that “Godless” science? I bet they use computers to tally their accounting ledgers, keep track of contributions, etc. Hey if they are so quick to condemn science, why don’t they try standing out in the middle of a field and preach? (Without those Godless implements of evil - microphones, amplifiers, etc)
What I find even more hypocritical is the way most fundamentalists will attempt to prove the Bible through science! The very same friend who decried science as being made up of nothing but theory and speculation (as if the two are synonymous) also talked about how the Bible is scientifically accurate and thus must be God-inspired. Something about how it discusses the sphericity of the earth and even showed knowledge of dinosaurs (behemoth anyone?). It also apparently predicts the invention of the radio and that stars emit radio wave energy. You know where he got that from? “Who laid the cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy?” in Job.
As a Christian, I have faith that the Bible is true. This doesn’t mean I believe it’s a science textbook, nor does it mean that I must set out to prove every little detail through dubious means. If the story of Creation as laid out in Genesis is not literally historically and scientifically accurate, that doesn’t affect how beautiful it is. If the fall of Adam and Eve is an allegory, that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. If you have faith, why go and try to prove everything? “Blessed be those who have not seen and yet still believe.”
Anyway, I’m sorry- I’ve ranted a lot in this thread. I’m really passionate about religion and science, and I guess it just bugs me a lot when some people distort both, but I’m usually such an introverted person that I have a tendency to get kinda angry when this subject is brought up.
You might want to throw the word “robust” in there.
The argument that always pisses me off is the wishful thinking/morality argument: “If evolution is true, then that says we are no better than animals, and we have no obligation to act in a moral fashion. It’s like telling children that they can do anything they want. Therefore evolution is false.”
tdn
Or another one I like - “If evolution is true, how come I don’t see it happening?”
Yes, how silly of me. I forgot the Universe was created just for you.
A few weeks ago, I was in a fossil store. As I was looking at megalodon teeth (the bastard swords of animal dentistry), I thought back on a comment that someone once made to me: “If evolution is true, then everything changes all the time, so why haven’t sharks evolved for millions of years?”
As a high school biology teacher in a rather conservative town filled with hordes of fundamentalist Christians and Mormons, I’ve had my difficulties with the teaching of evolution. It seems that most of the students bring an anti-evolution bias into my classroom because they’re grossly misinformed about how evolution works. Unfortunately, despite my very best efforts, many students still find faith stronger than facts and refuse to accept the mountain of evidence I give them supporting evolution.
At back to school night this year, a parent approached me and said “Our family is Christian, so therefore we don’t believe in evolution…how do you approach teaching this subject?” I had to bite my tongue and not reply: “Guess what? You can be Christian AND believe in evolution, I don’t think you’ll go to Hell for that.” Instead I gave her my pat wishy-washy answer that I will respect her student’s faith, but this is a science class and evolution is a valid scientific concept backed up by facts. I don’t think that made her too happy, but it got rid of her.
In a neighboring district they’re fighting a lawsuit by a group trying to get “intelligent design” included in the curriculum. If those bozos succeed, I’m sure my district will be next. There’s no way in Hell they’re gonna make me teach that crap, they’ll have to fire me.
It is a shame you can’t somehow harness the rebelious streak in teenagers to as a tool to teach the evolution. There has to be some chink in the old faith armour, that protects them from rational thought, you could exploit.