That lacks the portmanteau quality that makes “apatheist” so great.
Take Me Out to the Ballgame? What’s religious about that? 
Sure, some of my best friends are black!
Tell you what, Ghanima: as soon as you can express your “objective opinion on religion” without insulting me by calling my ignorant and my beliefs a “fantasy,” by insulting my religious beliefs by telling the central figure of my religion to “fuck himself,” and by going off with such rage when you’re presented with a view that’s different from your own, then you’re welcome to come back in with the backpedaling and trying to defend yourself. Until then, I’ll tell you where you can blow your steam.
I will never understand how people can convince themselves they’re so tolerant and objective and open-minding and be so colossally arrogant and hypocritical and just plain disrespectful of other people’s religious views. My being a Christian is nothing like being a racist, thank you very much, because it is a personal decision between myself and my God that has fuck all to do with what I think of other people. And that’s the key difference. I see a lot more in common with racists and some jerk going around telling Christians or Buddhists or Muslims to go “fuck themselves” and showing such blatant disrespect for the key tenets of their belief system, because that insults me.
Back east I had to deal with the morons who tried to use their religion to dismiss blacks and homosexuals as sinners or lesser people. Out here I’ve got to deal with morons who use their lack of religion to justify trashing religious icons. (“Wouldn’t it be funny if we drew pentagrams on that big cross up on the hill? They shouldn’t have put it up there in the first place because as an atheist, it offends me.”) There are idiots everywhere. A bunch of people who just need to get the fuck over themselves and let people live their lives as they see fit.
And for the record, evolution isn’t a “fucking fact,” it’s a theory. That doesn’t mean it’s not true; there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that says it is true and I have absolutely no reason to believe it’s not. So don’t anybody go saying that I’m advocating literal creationism or any such bullshit. But real schools describe it as evolutionary theory, acknowledging that it is a scientific process to find facts and group them together to support a hypothesis. They don’t get as dogmatic as your OP, which is just as bone-headed as any fundamentalist screed.
Fuck anyone who calls me “ignorant” for having faith. I’m just one of the lucky people who’s smart enough to be able to rationalize faith and science so that I don’t have to start freaking out when confronted with something that can’t be immediately explained.
I’m going to pick on you for a moment, SG, though you are one of my favorite posters.
Isn’t Christianity supposed to influence what you think of other people? I thought that was one of the points.
[sigh] It really is taking longer than we thought…
Well, thanks for the compliment.
And not the flavor of Christianity I (try to) practice. My religion is between me and God. I believe in God, I believe in Christ’s teachings (not all of Paul’s) and I believe that my salvation is based on what I do, not what anyone else does. Other people may need to believe that they’re better than others, or more moral than others, or that they’ve found the one true right way to live, in order for them to be happy or be saved or go to heaven. I don’t.
You’re supposed to influence somebody through your actions, not your words. If I’m telling you what to do, I’m doing it wrong.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Are you calling me ignorant because I know what the word “theory” means? Here you go:
Evolution is a theory. The overwhelming amount of data that we have discovered to support that theory are facts.
Try to follow along before you go calling me or anyone else ignorant, jack-ass.
But how you think of other people, that they are sinners, like you, beloved of God, like you, worthy of your love, worthy of your time, worthy of your respect, and deserving of being treated as you would want to be treated, aren’t those things supposed to be major aspects of Christianity?
I didn’t say anything about words. SG seemed to be saying that his religion doesn’t influence the way he thinks about other people, not the way he speaks to them but the way he thinks about them.
That is counter-intuitive to me, based on most of the Christian apologetics I’ve ever read about the benefits of Christianity to civilization. For someone to explicitly deny it strikes me as odd. Not unacceptable or anything nasty, just odd.
Frankly, I was caught off guard.
It is an observed fact that evolution occurs. The theory is only about why it happens.
“Theory” does not mean “unproven.”
Evolution is a both a theory and a fact. From talkorigins.org:
And could you maybe shut up about being a Christian until you start acting like one? Sure, I can understand getting pissed at what you perceive at people’s unfair interpretation of your faith, but here’s the kicker:
You act as assholish as anyone else. Folks like you, who go on and on and on about how fucking Christian you are, are really fucking rude about it. Can’t blame you, mind, and I’d do the same in your place, but it only shows that you lack the supposed grace and supernatural transformation you folks like to brag you have.
Your religion is just a club, like being a Shriner or a Republican. I certainly can understand how pissed you can get, but stop pretending that your faith turns you into a nicer person or a better person, cuz, well it doesn’t.
Gravity is also ‘only a theory’.
But things still fall down while we’re working out the specific math to describe it.
Likewise, things evolve, even though we don’t have the specific math to describe that, either.
pinching bridge of nose No, they’re not. By definition. Whether we go with your definition or mine. Babies don’t not believe in God, nor do deny God. They just don’t conceive.
All-powerful. Not scientifically meaningful?
All-knowing. Not specific enough for you?
Everlasting. Not falsifiable?
When did ‘what it’s made of’ and ‘where is it in the universe’ become necessary parts of a definition? By entity, I mean ‘thing.’ I would answer your other points, but I don’t profess to know. I don’t know that God exists in the first place.
I’m not usually accused of attempting to be clever, and here, it’s especially undeserved. You seem to be implying with ‘clever’ that I’m taking a position I don’t really believe, just because I like to be glib. I am not doing anything but putting out my honest thoughts. I got into this, not to be clever, but because Meatros’ assertion that being an atheist did not require any faith stuck out as inaccurate. And I maintain that one cannot claim they know something without proof nor faith. It’s one or the other. Otherwise you don’t even claim to know.
I do appreciate your attempts to eradicate my ignorance. I hope you appreciate my attempts to eradicate yours.
Define “faith.”
No, no, and no.
Omnipotence: Create a rock that is too heavy to lift. If you can, you are not omnipotent. If you cannot, you are not omnipotent. Omnipotence is just a word which does not corespond to anything real in reality.
Omniscience: This requires that all of time be laid out, static, predestined. How exactly is this information coded, where does it reside, etc… ?
Everlasting: Cannot be falsified. All the time we have is all the time in Universe. We simply cannot see what is ‘outside’ of Universe. Thus, you can’t falsify.
::Scribbling a check for dues:: :rolleyes:
My faith in God helps in determining my actions although I am not infallible. My not so WAG is that SolG generally experiences the same type of decisions in daily life, like getting too riled up over this thread. Maybe he had a crappy cup of coffee just before he posted, eh?
Some people do pretend to be religious, but then there are quite a few that just are who are outstanding. My MIL, and my late grandmother come to mind, but there are quite a few others in my life as well who are not pretenders and are/were great caring people.
Buddy, dictionaries are guides to popular usage, not stone tablets that define words. But if you do want to play the dictionary pissing contest, Wikipedia provides the following:
Etymology
The term atheism (French athéisme, from athée, meaning atheist, from Greek 'Αθεος, atheos, meaning godless : a-, without; + Θεός, theos, meaning god; it has Indo-European Roots) is formed of the Greek prefix α- (a-), meaning “without” or “not,” and the Greek-derived theism (from Θεϊσμός, theismos), meaning a belief in a god. The literal meaning of the term is therefore "lack of belief in a god."
Can you fucking more along now? Since there’s such a thing as proof, I don’t have to actively believe god doesn’t exist. And yes, this does mean that infants and agnostics are atheists. If you lack belief in god, you’re an atheist. That’s not what the word is popularly used to mean, which is what dictionaries tell you, but it does accurately reflect the fucking etymology of the term.
No. It is an observed fact that evolution occurs over a small amount of time (that which can be observed by human beings) in certain species. The theory is that it occurred for all life since the beginning of time and that is how all species have come into being.
This is the theory that is supported by the overwhelming majority of observable facts. This is the only theory that currently makes sense based on the facts that we are aware of. This is the only theory that is supported by the scientific method. That is why it is accepted by anyone with any sense as being the truth. You know damn well that every time a reputable scientist attempts to teach evolution, it is described as the theory of evolution. Because that is the scientific method.
But your attempt to be pedantic about it only clarifies my point. People too frequently confuse the role of science vs the role of religion. Science is an attempt to explain how things happen. Religion is an attempt to explain why things happen. They are only incompatible and only conflict when people try to extend one into the other.
No, creationism has absolutely no place in science courses. This isn’t because we hate Christians, it isn’t because religion is invalid or imaginary, it isn’t even because of the separation of church and state that is ingrained in our government. It is because creationism has no scientific basis. A religious work, which does not have to hold to the standards of the scientific method, should not be used as the basis of a science course. That is not up for debate.
But by the same token, science does not take the place of religion. Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, nor the source of faith, nor the reason behind the beginning of the observable universe, nor the nature of faith. That is the role of religion. Biology and sociology and linguistics explain how I get so pissed off when people fail to understand this and resort to cursing at them on internet message boards. But Christianity explains why I shouldn’t use profanity and why I should either ignore it or better yet wait until I can respond more calmly and with compassion.
And once again, you take your mis-interpretation of what I write in order to tell me how to act and how I should live my life. And I really wish you’d cut it out, because whether it’s out of compassion or whether it’s just out of a desire to flame me, it’s intolerably condescending and really, really fucking annoying.
Tell you what, gobear: How about you let me decide the kind of Christian I’m going to be and leave it between me and God? If I’ve decided I’m no longer going to listen to any self-righteous, racist, homophobic Bible-thumping jack-ass who wants to tell me I’m going to hell because he chooses to lump me in with all the other liberals and the homos, why would I possibly listen to somebody who shows such a blatant disrespect for my beliefs as you do repeatedly and chooses to lump me in with “folks like you” and “you folks”, meaning what? Christians? Theists in general? Southerners?
You keep acting like you understand me, so tell me: which group are you lumping me in with, exactly? And why are you basing what I say on “folks like you” instead of actually reading what I say? You say my religion is just like being a Shriner or a Republican – how the fuck can you possibly presume to know what my religion means to me, or how I came to have the belief system that I have?
You claim to understand how pissed I can get; you have no fucking clue. I have no idea why you’ve got such a bug up your ass about organized religion, although knowing other stuff that has no place in this thread, and comparing it to my own experience growing up in the Bible Belt, I can definitely imagine a lot of scenarios that would cause that kind of prejudice. But I don’t claim to understand where you’re coming from and I would never presume to tell you not to be an atheist. And that’s the entire fucking difference. You’ve got your beliefs, fine, whatever. Just recognize that they’re yours, and when you insult mine, and insult me for believing them, that is when I react.
Yes, I’m an asshole about a lot of things; I never claimed I wasn’t, and I wouldn’t be posting in the Pit if I weren’t. But I’m not an asshole about religion, because I believe it’s a personal thing for each person to decide for himself. And I sure as hell don’t understand why you and some others don’t understand that and acknowledge that, but instead try to impose your beliefs or lack thereof or other people, mocking and insulting them into submission by calling their beliefs “ignorance” or talking about their “imaginary” and “invisible” and “mythical” God. I don’t understand why you have to insult others to feel better about your own beliefs.
How about this: You show me where I (I, SolGrundy, not this group of “folks” that I supposedly belong to) have gone on about how Christian I am, when my beliefs weren’t being attacked or when the thread topic wasn’t directly about misconceptions about Christianity, such as being incompatible with homosexuality. You show me where I claimed to be a perfect Christian. You show me where I was bragging about my supposed grace and supernatural transformation. You show me where I claimed to be a nicer person or a better person. If you can do that, and it’s a real case of my saying that and not your interpretation of what I’m saying based on whatever prejudices you have about me or about Christianity, and then I’ll be the first one to recant it. Until then, why don’t you keep your opinions about what I say and how I live my life to yourself?
I’m pretty sure gravity is considered a law, not a theory. Along those same lines, I’m also pretty sure micro-evolution is considered scientific law, since we have the ability to see it happen with our own eyes. Macro-evolution is only classed as a theory because we can’t see it happening, because it’s already happened. So technically, it is a form of conjecture.
Taken from this site:
Law (third definition): a set of observed regularities
Theory (sixth definition): an explanation for an observation or series of observations that is substantiated by a considerable body of evidence
(Note: I’m not saying I don’t believe in macro-evolution, just that it’s called a theory for a reason, namely because we cannot go back in time and observe it ourselves. It’s highly possibly that if human beings survive another few thousand millennia, and can see the branching off of specie and genus groups with our own eyes, that macro-evolution will become scientific law. The difference is technical, but it’s there.)
Actually it’s both.
Evolution is both fact and theory. The fact is, evolution occured-we can witness this in the fossil record. The theory is how and why it occured.
If you like it to gravity, the fact is gravity happened. The theory of gravity would explain how and why it happens.