Getting stuck between friends. Do I tell her or not?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Background:

I have a friend who is working for the military. She’s in a civilian position, but it requires a security clearance, which she has. However, she just got a promotion to another division, which requires the highest possible security clearance. We’ll call this friend Alison.

My other friend, we’ll call her Kathy, had been roommates with Alison for two years during college and dislikes her intensely. Alison used to sleep around…a LOT. However, she has since cleaned up her act, is married now and no longer does this. Yet Kathy still harbors this inexplicable hatred of Alison. I mean, it’s really strong - she can’t seem to avoid talking about how much she hates this person in my company. I simply don’t understand it, and when I asked her about it privately, Kathy referenced Alison’s old habit of sleeping around (which she no longer does) and her immaturity (while she occasionally behaves immaturely, I don’t think that this behavior is in any way a threat to her performing on any job, and doing it well).

Current situation:

Anyway, that’s the background. Now, because the military requires full disclosure of everything about your life to get a high security clearance, Alison (who seems unaware of Kathy’s hate) asked Kathy at my bachelorette party if she would fill out a form for the military to interview her about Alison. Apparently, Kathy only accepted the form graciously because she was at my bachelorette party and didn’t want to offend me. But she intends to bash Alison if she is interviewed by the military. I read this all on Kathy’s blog, which she knows that I read, but for some reason is convinced that I didn’t read after my bachelorette party.

Anyway, I don’t know if Alison is aware of Kathy’s intentions. While my friendship with each has been important in the past, Kathy’s blind hatred of Alison makes me uncomfortable, and it has only grown with time, despite the fact that she only sees Alison maybe once per year (which is why she gave her the forms at the bachelorette party), and I have never heard Alison say anything bad to Kathy or about her. So Kathy seems unusually obsessed with hating her, and always refers to her as “ho bitch skank,” something I may expect from a high school student, but not a nearly 30-year-old woman. Further, it very much disturbs me that she would even consider telling the military that Alison is unfit for a high security clearance. I mean, this is her livelihood, and there is nothing about Alison’s personality that would indicate that she would do anything but an excellent job. I’m seriously reconsidering my friendship with Kathy, and would like to warn Alison in some way that Kathy plans to try to convince the military that she’s unfit for high security clearance.

I’ve never, ever been in a situation like this one before. I can’t believe that Kathy would threaten Alison’s livelihood like this, and it saddens me to toss away seven years of friendship with Kathy, but her habit of loathing people she used to be friends with (she absolutely hates her former best friend and a variety of other people we used to be mutual friends with) is really horrible. I’ve never met someone who so actively hated other people like this before, and I don’t want her to negatively impact Alison’s chances of getting this job. She really, really wants it and all that is standing between her and a formal job offer (she’s already gotten a verbal one, pending security clearance) is the background check.

Can anyone think of a good way to approach Alison on this? Should I avoid mentioning it to her?

2

You have to tell Allison. Security clearances can be very hard to get. She shouldn’t have to be turned down for one, and the promotion, because someone else holds a petty grudge.

Please, tell her asap.

3

I send profane’s advice. I’d tell, and tell fast.

Then I’d tell Kathy to shut her trap, that I wouldn’t want to hear that about anyone, let alone a friend.

4

If it was a situation where nobody really stood to lose anything, or where the damage was going to be negligible, you might be able to keep your mouth shut. But as you said, this is Allison’s livelihood we’re talking about, as well as something very hard to get that she has bloody well earned. This is a big, hairy deal, and you HAVE to tell her right now. You have to. If you’re really her friend, you’ll tell her today.

As for your friendship with Kathy, is such a toxic person even capable of true friendship? Does she add anything to your life besides discomfort at hearing your other friends bashed? Do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that she doesn’t bash you when you’re not around, or that she won’t turn on you at some point in the future? I know it’s hard to admit that you’ve wasted a significant portion of your life being around someone who isn’t really your friend; I’ve been there and done that, only it took me almost 20 years to wake up and smell the coffee. But I also know that someone who is truly your friend doesn’t hurt your feelings by badmouthing someone you care about, or actively plan to hurt people you care about.

5

Yeah, I’d kind of already made up my mind to tell Alison about what Kathy was planning. In fact, as soon as I posted this thread, I emailed her to ask if she’d be interested in going out to coffee as soon as she gets back from her vacation (as luck would have it, she’s on her honeymoon now). I’ve been struggling with this for quite a while, and I’ve asked Alison about what she thinks of Kathy a couple of times, but she’s been very gracious about her. So, yeah, I’ll just have to sit down with her, spill it and hope for the best.

As for Kathy, I’m just going to have to cut ties with her. You’re right - I’ve always assumed that she does talk about me. And not in quite the way that mutual friends do. You know, sometimes you talk about your friends’ quirks, but you don’t bash them. And I’ve had the feeling that, since I got married, her words about me have become more harsh.

She has established this pattern in the past two or three years: she’s friends as long as you’re on the same level or below what she is. If you’re single, like she is, you’re ok. If you’re not making much money, she won’t resent you. But God forbid you get a promotion, raise, or find someone you can love. A former best friend of hers was in her good graces until she got married. Then all of a sudden, Kathy found her presumptuous and annoying. When Alison was going through some rough times when they were living together and had a phobia about sleeping alone, Kathy was okay with that. They were friends. But Alison moved out, got some therapy, a good job in a division she likes using her degree and is now newly married and making more than Kathy. Now, in Kathy’s book, she’s somehow worthless. I just opened my own company, and I’ve noticed her drawing away more and more. Yeah, I need to dump her. And tell Alison as soon as humanly possible.

Sometimes I hate people. But you guys are great. Thanks!

6

You have a unique opportunity to make things right. In my experience, the guys who do the interviews don’t just interview the close sources – usually “chosen” friends – but instead, do their real in-depth interviews at the fringes, with people who know you, but who might not know you’re up for a clearance (when I got my clearance, I got some phone calls from the strangest old acquaintances).

So, yes, tell Alison about Kathy. And then ask Alison to whom else she gave her forms - and tell all of them that Kathy is to be referred to as an unreliable source. A good way to handle this is to answer a question with a question: “Did Alison ever act irresponsibly, especially in her private life?” “Oh, you’ve been talking to Kathy? You guys know she’s got a grudge against Alison, right?”

These guys don’t just do one interview; it’s a composite picture. Tell Kathy to play nice, and tell your other friends to keep Kathy in mind if it sounds like they get a leading question.

7

You have a unique opportunity to make things right. In my experience, the guys who do the interviews don’t just interview the close sources – usually “chosen” friends – but instead, do their real in-depth interviews at the fringes, with people who know you, but who might not know you’re up for a clearance (when I got my clearance, I got some phone calls from the strangest old acquaintances).

So, yes, tell Alison about Kathy. And then ask Alison to whom else she gave her forms - and tell all of them that Kathy is to be referred to as an unreliable source. A good way to handle this is to answer a question with a question: “Did Alison ever act irresponsibly, especially in her private life?” “Oh, you’ve been talking to Kathy? You guys know she’s got a grudge against Alison, right?” If that doesn’t come up, then when the interviewer asks – and they will! – if there’s anyone else that might have more insight into Alison’s personality, like roommates or whoever, they can mention that Kathy knew her well, but is probably biased… and then list other, known friendly, sources.

They don’t just do one interview; it’s a composite picture. Tell Kathy to play nice, and tell your other friends to keep Alison’s best interests at heart.

8

  1. If this clearance is as high as it sounds, by the time they’re done Alison will probably have told them herself how many people she’s slept with. I’ve heard (from those who would know) that you’ve basically gotta tell them your dirty laundry. Not because they particularly care, but because if they know all your secrets, they figure you can’t be blackmailed by somebody saying something to you like “steal classified information for me or I’ll make sure everyone finds out that you used to be a stripper” or something.

  2. Provided Kathy’s the only bad reference they get, they will probably just disregard her as a random bitch.

  3. Hi, Opal.

  4. They realize everyone makes mistakes and it seems everyone is “allowed” an indiscretion or two. (From what I’ve been told, things will go well for Alison if she is 100% honest with them and straightforward when they ask something. Start hiding or telling half truths and that’ll make 'em wonder what ELSE you’re hiding that they didn’t find. I doubt her past promiscuity will bother them too much, especially now that )she’s married and especially since she’s otherwise perfect for the job. Considering she wasn’t married at the time she was, um, dating a lot, I think that’s a point in her favor. Yeah, she had some fun. She’s settled down now, though, and that has stopped. I would think that continuing to sleep with a lot of guys NOW would be much, much more likely to knock her out of consideration. At the time she was doing it, she hadn’t made a promise to anybody.

Yes, you should tell Alison. Yes, get the word out to her other friends that if they could caaaaaaasually mention to the nice interviewers that Kathy’s a bitch, that’d be great (if they are obvious about it it’s just gonna make them look like that they are covering up for Alison and cause them to listen more closely to Kathy). And by all means cut ties with Kathy. Someone who would deliberately try to mess with someone’s career for no good reason is, in my book, about as low as it gets.

9

<giggle>
WHen I was getting a clearance done back in about 1989 I got a call from a friend from high school I hadn’t seen in over 8 years…

He said he was asked if I could be coerced into doing something I wouldn’t normally do and he had replied that if there was any coercion going on, I would be the one doing it…

Me, dominant? say it isn’t so=)

10

You may also want to print out a copy of Kathy’s blog and make it available to the security clearance people, especially if it displays her unfounded bitterness towards Alison.

11

Yay!!! My thread had been Hi, Opal-ed!!! Today is looking better and better. Thanks, Abbie!

12

What’s the big debate here? You tell Alison that Kathy plans to screw her over. You tell Kathy to fucking get a life and mind her own business. What are you worried about, that you lose your friendship with Kathy, who sucks anyway?

13

Oooooh, that’s a sweet idea!

14

That’s a REALLY good idea. Why didn’t I think of that?!

15

Yes, but incorrectly.

[Miss Othmar voice]
For those of you who are new: The use of Hi Opal! in a list began with a rant by our own OpalCat who opined correctly that two items does not a list make. Therefore, the request was made if a Doper had only two items, yet insisted on calling it a list, a third item be added so it would be a true and proper list. The third item is “Hi Opal!” Since Abbie’s list had three items already, “Hi Opal” was completely unncessary.

[/Miss Othmar]

And yeah, to actually respond to the OP, I would tell Alison and dump Kathy, who sounds like a bitter, insecure shrew.