Someone asked Cecil a question a while ago about the references to “Anakim” in the Bible and the “Nephilim”, which got me thinking, since the Anakim were purported to be a race of giants - Goliath, Gog, Magog, and others. I’ve been reading a lot lately about the discovery of giant remains, giant tombs, and other relics pertaining to the existence of giants. If these things exist, then where have they all gone, and why don’t we hear about it in the press? I can give you a bibliography of all my sources, if you’re curious.
Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, and thank you for posting your comment.
Please provide a link to the column being referenced.
To include a link, it can be as simple as including the web page location in your post (make sure there is a space before and after the text of the URL).
Almost all folklore and mythologies refer to a race of giants existing in elder days. However, other than this commonality, there is (so far as I am aware) no hard, physical evidence of any such critters ever existing, other than in the imaginations of some very great storytellers.
Almost all folklore and mythologies refer to a race of giants existing in elder days. However, other than this commonality, there is (so far as I am aware) no hard, physical evidence of any such critters ever existing, other than in the imaginations of some very great storytellers.**
I’d like to second this. My own personal hypothesis is that these legends of giants come from the mythology of the Indo-Europeans, the chariot-drivers who came out of the Caucaus mountains and went on to conquer Europe (and India) back in the 2nd millenium BCE.
All western mythologies have them; the Norse have the Etins, the Irish & Welsh have the Formorians, the Graeco-Romans the Titians and the Semetic people the Nephilim.
As a short fellow among a race of strapping tall Americans, I’ve thought a bit about human stature.
If Goliath was 6’ 10" when the average height was 5’ 2" he may have been considered a giant. On the other hand, I heard an anthropologist on televsion draw conclusions from David’s slaying of Goliath that Goliath suffered from medical Giantism. Could he have been 8 feet then? Perhaps.
Somewhere along the line Charlemagne was reputed to have been 8 feet tall. As with Goliath, Charlemagne was probably a mere 6’4" among a race of 5 foot Franks.
The tallest human VERIFIED is still Robert Pershing Wadlow of Illinois, who died aged 22 at just a shade under 9 feet. There were probably taller giants unverified.
Then again, some anthropolists have evidence that prior to living in dense and filthy cities, Indo-European males averaged 5’9," not much different from today. Crowded conditions, disease, and poor nutrition diminished height in the middle ages.
I agree with previous posts that races of giants, such as the Nephilim are legends lacking in evidence. Legends, though, serve an invaluable role in humanity.
I’d be surprised to learn that “the press” was sitting on stories of discoveries that could confirm biblical accounts. The press is not a monolothic institution, but a collective term that covers numerous commercial enterprises competing for our attention, and publishers know religion sells. Look at the coverage of the ossuary of James, despite its extremely suspect provenance.
I think giants could have arisen in folkore of different cultures independently in at least two ways.
Dramatic Need: If you’re trying to tell an exciting story, have your hero fight someone bigger and stronger than himself, rather than smaller and weaker.
Childhood Memories: The giant represents the father: a large, sometimes fearsome individual standing between the hero and the fulfillment of his desires. (Paging Dr. Freud…)
That’s fine and all, Brian, except that means God must have done a good job hiding their bones and such when he was done. I’m just saying.
In other words, a “race” or “races” of Giants (meaning whole communities of really big people, not just an occasional person with pituitary problems) is an extraordinary claim. Even if that book is true, many people would like to see some extraordinary evidence to back it up.
I hesitated to get into the usual Bible ‘true/false’ debates that seem so common on these boards, (but I did stick my oar in didn’t I?) I’ll stick to the meaning of the word ‘giants’
In Genisis 6 it says that at that time there were “giants on the earth in those days” and it uses the word “Nephilim.” The term is from a Hebrew verb “to fall” and it has to do with powerful beings that crush somebody. Mighty warrior-chiefs would be the more modern way to put it. This is not a race of people; this is just some powerful people, some powerful men who fell on others in the sense of overpowering or conquering them. These guys may have been big, strong and tall, but they were not the ‘amazing collossal man’ sized.
here’s a good place to start your basic Bible study,
Anyway, the archeological evidence for or against Bible stories would be second to the faith one has in God’s word. Many people have little knowledge of current archeological findings and interpretations but may have a real, personal relationship with the living God.
I would have thought that a “fall” root for “Nephilim” would stem more from the idea that they are fallen celestial beings. As for archaeology coming second to faith, that depends on whom you ask. Here on this board, I suspect that you’ll find a good many folks for whom the archaeology comes first.
I’ll go back to the OP, as something has been missing from this discussion. I certainly didn’t mean to get into a “truth of the bible” argument with BMalion, that will descend into a great debate fast. What the OP talks about is something else entirely…not a discussion rooted in concordances and interpretations, but one based on Evidence!
I’d love to take rodger up on his offer of sources. If he has been reading about remains, tombs, and relics of giants, I think that most certainly we would all like to see this for ourselves. So banjoboy…cite please?
-mok
ps BMalion, for what it’s worth, the link you posted (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cap...philimroot.html ) also has material indicating that the “creation of Adam” was in 4000 BC (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/6859/Genealogy/daysofadam.html). We already have lots of archeological evidence of the existence of people from before 4000 BC, so I’m rather skeptical of anything else that site may contain regarding archeology. I have no argument whatsover with its religious content, just its science.
Good point mok, I guess I read the OP without too much attention. I also would like to know what banjoboy has been reading regarding the evidence of giants. I remember coming across some “Chariots of the Gods” type of book in the seventies and when I looked back at it with more attention to detail all sources were spurious. An embarassing book.
I guess that the evidence of giants the OP read about has not held up to hard scrutiny and that’s why he hasn’t heard more about it. Seems every decade or so some ‘proof’ about the Bible comes to the attention of the national media and then sort of fades away. Remember “In Search of Noah’s Ark”? I suspect that the ‘Jame’s ossuary’ will be almost unheard of in 10 years time.