Global-warming skepticism from a leftist

Alexander Cockburn, who has written the “Beat the Devil” column for The Nation for many years, recently published several pieces highly critical of the anthropogenic-climate-change theory and the politics around it, including:

“Is Global Warming a Sin?”

“Dissidents Against Dogma”

See also this back-and-forth debate series on ZNet.

Just goes to show, you can’t always use a person’s known politics to predict his/her position on every issue.

Is Cockburn saying anything that hasn’t already been debunked? He seems to rely mostly on the claims of Dr. Martin Hertzberg – who is a semi-retired explosives expert, not a climatologist.

Not in the second article, judging by the list of references.

And I query your left/right thesis: many right-wingers seem fairly convinced by AGW if the trade in carbon offsets is anything to go by.

I also am disheartened by the ideological divide on GW. But it seems somewhat inevitiable, as an extreme antipathy to regulation of business is one of the lodestars of the right, they just can’t help it. More’s the pity.

Coburn—much like Christopher Hitchens, although a little less liquor-soaked and a lot more rational—is anti-dogma (or what he perceives to be dogma) above all else, so this isn’t much of a surprise.

Another instance of how skepticism can often be its own ideology.

Ha. When Cockburn’s deliberately contrarian, scientifically ignorant articles came out, I told jshore he was going to be stuck cleaning up after them one way or another. Now it looks like he is. Pardon me while I go fetch him.

:smack:

I can’t believe I just noticed that I spelled Cockburn’s name as it’s pronounced rather than as it’s, y’know, spelled.

Short answer: No!

Long answer [discussing the first Cockburn screed you linked to]:

Cockburn (paraphrasing): How come the 30% drop in human emissions of CO2 at the time of the Great Depression didn’t show up in the atmospheric levels of CO2? Doesn’t this show the rise in CO2 levels isn’t being produced by our burning of fossil fuels?

Answer: First of all, Cockburn is confusing a drop in the rate of increase and a drop in a level…not the same thing. I.e., the 30% drop in emissions shouldn’t lead to a drop in CO2 levels but rather to a drop in the rate of growth of CO2 levels. Second, Cockburn is taking the data way further than it can be taken. As he notes, measurements of sufficient time-resolution to detect, for example, the seasonal cycle in CO2 levels were not available before 1958. What the pre-1958 measurements rely on is bubbles captured in glacial ice and since these bubbles take a long time to close off, they don’t provide the sort of temporal resolution Cockburn desires. Third, we know that there are various sources of variability in the rise in CO2…i.e., the amount in the atmosphere increases by about 1/2 of what we put into the atmosphere every year but the percentage is not exact. This is not surprising given that there are some large fluxes of CO2 between the atmosphere and oceans and biosphere that are influenced by various factors. However, just because these introduce “noise” into the system does not mean that we are not responsible for the long-term trend of rising CO2 levels. In fact, it is known with such confidence that we are that even very few of the skeptics argue this point anymore; Cockburn is way out in the field on this one. (For example, the “Greening Earth Society” was so-named because they were trying to argue that the rise in CO2 levels was a blessing that we were giving the earth because it would promote plant growth.)

Cockburn: Water vapor is a greenhouse gas found in much higher concentrations than CO2 and thus CO2 concentration is irrelevant. “And water is exactly that component of the earth’s heat balance that the global warming computer models fail to account for.”

Answer: Yes, water vapor contributes more to the natural greenhouse effect than CO2. However, the natural greenhouse effect warms the earth by a very large ~30C, and the contribution due to CO2 is not insignificant. And, because radiative forcing depends approximately logarithmically on the concentrations of each of the greenhouse gases, what is relevant is the fractional change in the levels that you are causing. We have already cause a significant fractional change in CO2 concentrations (+35%) and will be hard pressed not to more than double CO2 concentrations from pre-industrial levels by the end of the century. Furthermore, the computer models do in fact account for water vapor. In fact, there is a positive feedback whereby the warming due to CO2 causes increased evaporation and therefore an increase in water vapor concentration, which causes further warming. This effect roughly doubles the warming due to CO2 alone. This is not to say that the models deal with water vapor perfectly…there are still difficulties in particular with the way clouds are handled by the models. However, various checks have been made against real data to give confidence that the models are handling the water vapor feedback effect roughly correctly.

Cockburn: “It’s a notorious inconvenience for the Greenhousers that data also show carbon dioxide concentrations from the Eocene period, 20 million years before Henry Ford trundled his first model T out of the shop, 300-400 per cent higher than current concentrations.”

Answer: It is not an inconvenience at all. Saying that we are responsible for the current rise in CO2 levels does not exclude other causes for rises in CO2 on much longer timescales over the earth’s geological history. (After all, where does he think all the carbon locked away in the fossil fuels got there in the first place?!) In fact, there is an increasing ability to model the carbon cycle and show rises and fall of CO2 levels on these sorts of very long geological timescales. However, the fact remains that over at least the least ~7 glacial / interglacial cycles going back ~750,000 years, CO2 levels were always between about 180ppm and 300ppm whereas in the last ~150 years they have risen from 280ppm to 380ppm! In fact, one likely does have to go back close to 20 million years to find levels of CO2 higher than current levels!

Cockburn: “The Greenhousers deal with other difficulties like the medieval warming period’s higher-than-today’s temperatures by straightforward chicanery, misrepresenting tree-ring data (themselves an unreliable guide) and claiming the warming was a local, insignificant European affair.”

Answer: Well, it is true that temperature reconstructions using tree ring and other data are not perfect. However, when you look at the evidence from sites around the world (well, mainly around the Northern Hemisphere since Southern Hemisphere data is sparse), one sees that, while many places experienced some warmth during a several hundred year period broadly defined as the Medieval warming period, the warming in different areas tended to be asynchronous. So, when you average it all together, the overall warming you see in the Northern Hemisphere during this period is rather weak and it does not appear to have ever gotten as warm as it has in the last half of the 20th century.

Cockburn: “We’re warmer now, because today’s world is in the thaw following the last Ice Age. Ice ages correlate with changes in the solar heat we receive, all due to predictable changes in the earth’s elliptic orbit round the sun, and in the earth’s tilt. As Hertzberg explains, the cyclical heat effect of all of these variables was worked out in great detail between 1915 and 1940 by the Serbian physicist, Milutin Milankovitch, one of the giants of 20th-century astrophysics. In past postglacial cycles, as now, the earth’s orbit and tilt gives us more and longer summer days between the equinoxes.”

Answer: Well, the last Ice Age (or “glacial period”) ended about 12,000 years ago. In fact, the seminal paper from the mid-1970s that argued for the Milankovitch cycles being the pacemaker for the ice ages argued that the long-term natural trend on the basis of these cycles over the next 20,000 years should be toward glaciation (although some scientists now argue that this current interglacial would have lasted longer than that…maybe another 40,000 to 50,000 years even without our intervention). Furthermore, the rate of rise in temperature coming out of the last ice age averaged about 0.1-0.2 C per century over a period of a few thousand years. By contrast, our current rate of warming over the last 35 years has been close to 0.2 C per decade. Finally, the ice ages, far from disproving the AGW theory, actually provide support for it. E.g., by estimating the radiative forcings and the resulting warming that occurred, Jim Hansen has come up with an estimate of the climate sensitivity to the known forcing due to increasing CO2 levels. This estimated sensitivity is in good agreement with that estimated by climate models (albeit with reasonable-size error bars for both estimates).

Cockburn: “Water covers 71 per cent of the surface of the planet. As compared to the atmosphere, there’s at least a hundred times more CO2 in the oceans, dissolved as carbonate. As the postglacial thaw progresses the oceans warm up, and some of the dissolved carbon emits into the atmosphere, just like fizz in soda water taken out of the fridge. ‘So the greenhouse global warming theory has it ass backwards,’ Hertzberg concludes. ‘It is the warming of the earth that is causing the increase of carbon dioxide and not the reverse.’ He has recently had vivid confirmation of that conclusion. Several new papers show that for the last three quarter million years CO2 changes always lag global temperatures by 800 to 2,600 years.”

Answer: Actually, this last fact is hardly new news…In fact, the latest paper that I know of was one that suggested that the 800 year lag is possibly an artifact, although this has been greeted rather skeptically by the community since the 800 year lag makes sense. (The larger lag of ~2600 years upon cooling into ice ages has been demonstrated to be largely an artifact.) But the overall point is that, yes, in past climate changes before we were around to pump prodigious amounts of CO2 rapidly into the atmosphere, it is believed that warming due to the Milankovitch cycles and the associated decrease in glaciation then caused an increase in CO2 levels (released from the oceans and possibly also from the biosphere) which then further amplified the warming. However, the level of CO2 didn’t go above 300ppm, the rise in CO2 levels took hundred of years (as Cockburn’s lag time suggests), and the amount of CO2 rise wasn’t nearly as large for the same amount of warming as we have seen over the last century or so. Furthermore, we know that this time is different: We know that we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere and that the oceans, far from releasing it, are actually acting as a sink of CO2, which is part of the reason why the atmospheric levels of CO2 are only rising about 1/2 as fast as they would be if all the CO2 we released remained there. (The biosphere is absorbing some too.) It is also why the oceans are becoming more acidic, more evidence that they are absorbing more CO2 than they are releasing. (However, Cockburn is right in one sense in that the warming of the oceans is expected to decrease their ability to act as a sink of our CO2 emissions.)

Cockburn: “…that’s not even to mention the role of the giant reactor beneath our feet: the earth’s increasingly hot molten core.”

Answer: It is good he didn’t mention it since the contribution of this to the heating of the atmosphere is utterly inconsequential (by several orders of magnitude) compared to the energy we absorb from the sun or even the change in the amount that we absorb due to the change in greenhouse gas levels.

Thanks jshore! So basically, you’re saying that we’re cleared to Point And Laugh At The Retard? Good to know.
What irritates me particularly about this little stunt of Cockburn’s is that he used to pose as some kind of uber-environmentalist, periodically ripping into the Sierra Club or the Nature Conservancy or some other mainstream environmental group for making too many compromises on environmental-policy issues. But that was before the recognition of climate change became a mainstream issue among liberals, thus apparently making it anathema to Cockburn and requiring him to violently repudiate it. :rolleyes:

What with Christopher Hitchens’ conversion to neoconservatism over the Iraq invasion question and now Cockburn’s dropping trou over anthropogenic climate change, we seem to be seeing some kind of ideological self-immolation trend among contrarian drama-queen leftists. I wonder if Cockburn’s going to end up on the right-wing think-tank circuit like Hitchens? I certainly hope he imitates Hitchens in quitting his Nation gig, now that he’s essentially destroyed what credibility he had as a responsible journalist.

By the way, RealClimate also has a piece about Cockburn (and see also their comments here).

Cockburn’s been a troll for a long time. I guess anti-“zionism” wasn’t getting him the attention he craved. Now he switched to pseudo-science. Thanks, as always, to jshore for clearing this BS up. If you have the time, maybe you should write something for the Nation, which seems somewhat embarassed by this. (Though if you hire a troll, I don’t see why you wouldn’t expect him to troll.)

jshore, I was wondering about some of the facts Cockburn cited. He said that humans were producing 0.8 gigatons of carbon gases in 1933, at the low point of the depression. How much are humans producing now? How much of an increase is that to the amount that the oceans would produce during a natural warming cycle?

IANA jshore, but I can take a layperson’s stab at answering these questions. As the blue line in the second graph on this page indicates, we are up to about 6.5 gigatons of carbon emitted per year from burning fossil fuels. (The graph also shows the Depression-era trough that you mentioned.)

I’m not sure I fully understand your second question. As this graphic shows, the oceans release about 90 gigatons of carbon annually into the atmosphere and absorb about 92 gigatons annually. (These figures are for the present-day carbon cycle including human emissions.)

The impact of anthropogenic carbon emissions isn’t that they’re so big compared to natural emissions: it’s that they represent an additional source of carbon that was formerly sequestered (as buried fossil fuels) outside the natural carbon cycle which had its inputs and outputs more or less in equilibrium.

I don’t know exactly what you mean by “a natural warming cycle”. We were in a warming phase about 12,000 years ago, when the earth transitioned from the most recent glacial period (generally called an “ice age”, although geologists use “ice age” to refer instead to the multibillion-year period of global low temperatures that is currently still going on) to the current interglacial period. AFAIK, ocean carbon emissions were lower during that transition than the more-or-less equilibrium level of 90 gigatons or so that they attained during the interglacial. (Boy, I hope jshore drops by to check this, because I’m not sure of the exact figures.)

When the earth enters a major “warming period” at the end of the current multibillion-year ice age due to periodic orbital changes, natural CO2 emissions will significantly increase, AFAIK. But there is no scientific reason to believe that any such natural “warming period” is happening now. The best explanation that current climate science has for the warming trend that we’re now seeing is that it’s mostly caused by increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere due to human emissions.

According to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, the U.S. produced about 5.8 gigatonnes of CO2 in 2006.

I’m having trouble finding some information to answer your second question, though. Here’s the best I could come up with for now:

LilShieste

Note: Never play Trivial Pursuit with Kimstu.

Sounds good to me. The only correction I have is to note that you presumably meant “multimillion-year period”.

Also, a comment that the eagle-eyed amongst you might note that kimstu quotes a figure of 6.5 gigatons of carbon for the world emissions (circa year 2000) whereas LilShieste notes that the U.S. alone emitted 5.8 gigatonnes of CO2 in 2006. At first glance, this might sound like the U.S. is emitting almost the entire world amount but note that the difference is one is in units of gigatonnes of carbon and one in units of gigatonnes of CO2…So, to convert between them, there is a factor of the ratio of the atomic mass of carbon (=12) to the molecular mass of CO2 (=44).

As far our release of CO2 now to the amount released during a natural warming cycle, roughly speaking the global temperatures increased by 5 C coming out of the glacial period and the CO2 levels went up by 100ppm, so that’s roughly 20 ppm CO2 per degree C. I think that if all the CO2 we released from fossil fuel burning stayed in the atmosphere, CO2 levels would be going up close to 4ppm per year (as it is now, they are going up close to 2ppm per year)…or 40ppm per decade, whereas temperatures are going up roughly 0.2 C per decade, so we are emitting CO2 at a level of roughly 200ppm per degree C increase in global temperature. So, roughly speaking, our emissions of CO2 into the atmosphere are an order of magnitude higher than previous temperature-induced CO2 increases were. (This is only a very rough comparison because, among other things, the relationship between CO2 and temperature is symbiotic in both directions…i.e., higher temperatures beget higher CO2 levels and higher CO2 levels beget higher temperatures.)

Also note that it is believed that the release of CO2 occurred much more gradually than we are currently releasing it. In particular, scientists believe that the reason that CO2 tends to lag temperature by about 800 years during the transitions between glacial and interglacial periods is because this corresponds roughly to a time it takes to overturn ocean waters to expose the deeper ocean waters to the atmosphere.

Heh, yeah, thanks, sorry about that. There isn’t that much room in the earth’s history so far to fit in multiple multibillion-year phenomena, is there? :slight_smile:

Whuffo’ no? I’m always polite and never cheat. Swear to Og.

Okay, sometimes at the beginning of the game I do have a tendency to go “oo oo oo, I know that!” if the other team is asked a question that I know the answer to, which can be intensely annoying, but I always cut it out when reprimanded, or worst-case after being bopped with a sofa pillow.

I’m not sure I understand the drift of the entire thread. Are ‘leftist’(s)not allowed to be skeptical about GW? Is it in their contract or something? Does this mean that no ‘rightist’(s) aren’t allowed to agree with GW/AGW? Or something?

This of course ignores the assertion that GW/AGW is a right vs left issue (I suppose a case could be made that way)…

-XT

And FWIW, I wouldn’t play Trivial Pursuit against Kimstu (especially not for money, or if death was on the line…). I’m only good at the science, literature and history questions anyway (I’m hopeless at sports and entertainment)…

:slight_smile:

-XT

The thread is primarily about Cockburn’s moronic showboating, and the scientific ignorance he’s displaying in the process about even the most elementary basics of climate science and quantitative thought in general. (Mixing up the amount of anthropogenic emissions with the rate of increase in the amount of human emissions is the biggest eye-roller for me among Cockburn’s howlers. I suppose you might argue that somebody who wrote “multibillion-year period” when she meant “multimillion-year period” has no business scolding Cockburn for sloppy thinking. But hell, at least I didn’t base any of the actual points of my argument on that mistake, and it was just a quickly-written board post rather than a formal publication, neither of which excuses is valid in Cockburn’s case.)

But yes, I think there’s a secondary theme here about the expectation that liberals at present are more willing to accept the conclusions of mainstream climate science than conservatives are. This is also illustrated by the survey results in this article, where three-quarters of college-educated Democrats as opposed to less than one-quarter of college-educated Republicans believed that global warming is anthropogenic.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that leftists aren’t “allowed” to disagree with the AGW hypothesis, or that rightists aren’t “allowed” to agree with it. We’ve already started seeing more conservative politicians and business leaders taking AGW seriously, and IMO that trend will continue as the scientific evidence piles up. But there’s no question that so far we certainly do see a significant left/right divide in opinions about climate science.

Another small point: the guy isn’t a skeptic. He’s already made up his mind.