I think “rarely” referred to step parents actively desiring step kids in the abstract - not that step kids are part of the package, not that they are indifferent to the idea of having step kids , not that they have grown to love these particular step kids but rather, that they were looking for a partner who has kids rather than one who does not. I don’t think that’s all that common
Nah. It was this rarely:
Specifically the don’t get on and active mutual dislike. Sorry for excessive truncation.
Yes, exactly.
And my experience of families with step parents is mostly from the kids’ point of view, and it ranges from positive through neutral to negative, to ‘taken into foster care due to child abuse’. It’s not something that should be taken lightly, and I think this idea that dating is necessary for the parent’s well being, and that you should go ahead because it will make you a better parent is very one-sided. It’s not a bad thing to put your kids first for a while, especially while they are young.
I don’t think that Demon Tree is talking about you in particular. The fact that you’re happily married doesn’t have much to do with it.
FWIW, I had precisely the same thought as DemonTree when I read your and DSeid’s posts. It’s very convenient to say that when you’re meeting your own needs, whatever you define those as, you’re actually just enabling yourself to properly take care of your children. The same argument could be used to justify almost any behavior.
It’s also very convenient to think that one’s opponents in a debate are rationalizing their own selfishness. Where now?
Where now is, either we address points on their own merits instead of trying to psychoanalyze the arguers, or we just get personal and into the mud.
I’m not particularly interested in the latter, nor am I interested in continuing to address the inaccurate paraphrase of what I said.
Instead, turn it around. You’re a relatively new parent, right? Have you noticed any difference in the judgment calls you make when you’re in a good mental place, versus when you’re in a bad mental place? Is your anecdotal data different from mine?
It can be, and so we should be careful what we consider to be needs. But like the airline safety instruction, you need to put on your own air mask before you attempt to help your child put on theirs. You really do need to meet your own needs to be a good parent.
I don’t think I need a romantic partner so much that I would have taken the time to pursue one when I was rearing toddlers – and “sleep” and “time to myself” were, frankly, greater needs for me at that stage. But people are different, and I have more non-romantic friends I can lean on for emotional support than many people have. I suspect that a romantic partner is an emotional need for many.
Here’s a brief article on the topic of what seems totally obvious to me–that parents who are in a good place emotionally are better parents and that having an emotional support network is a big piece of that.
It frankly baffles me that anyone who has kids would be suspicious of this idea. It’s not suggesting neglecting the kids in any way to suggest that parents also take care of themselves.
Importantly, children in families with step-parents experience greater rates of abuse from BOTH parents, both step and biological. It’s not as simple as suggesting that step parents are abusers, it’s a deeper issue in those particular families as a whole.
It’s also convenient if it’s true. Absent contradictory evidence, I’d trust the word of a parent who felt this way over some other random person saying “Nuh-uh, you’re actually parenting wrong”.
For certain values of “pursue”. Would I assume someone with a four year old is spending all their time on dating apps or at fern bars? Probably not. But if you meet someone in your circle and hit it off, I don’t think it’s the best choice to shut that down just because you have a young kid. And the same network that you might use as a substitution might also act as a way to help you meet a partner. Both by introducing you to people and by offering to watch the tyke while you’re spending a Saturday afternoon doing something besides Garanimals laundry.
In my case, I did the whole “Can’t think about romance, got a kid to raise” single parent thing for several years before connecting with my now-spouse. I was doing okay (and thankfully had some family support) but my evenings after he was in bed were mainly spent playing online computer games (Everquest, mainly) because they allowed me to be home and kinda-sorta pretend I had a social life. I wasn’t miserable but I was certainly happier when I connected with a partner and she’s been my older kid’s mom now for nearly twenty years. Would have been a real shame to pass on that just because of some mistaken notion that I had to remain in the desert until my kid was 12 or 16 or out of the house or else I’m a bad parent more concerned with sex than child welfare.
Yeah, of course, obviously. What on Earth gave you the idea that this is something I disagree with?
Yeah, I agree completely. Where I disagree is the idea that being able to date fulfills a need that’s as crucial as an oxygen mask.
That’s basically what I’m saying.
I also think that some people convince themselves that it IS a need that they MUST fulfill and they can’t possibly wait a couple years for the toddler stage to end. Not because it’s actually a necessity, but because having a partner is nice, and they’re not willing to go without nice things even for a limited time.
I think the trend started in Japan. Sometime in the 1970s I saw a news photo of the child of Akihito graduating kindergarten. A tiny fist grasping a rolled-up diploma. It was the first I’d heard of kindergarten graduation, and I thought it was a ridiculous idea. Like, oh, those Japanese. What’ll they come up with next? I never expected it to catch on here. There have been lots of Japanese trends that never caught on here except among otaku subculture. But when the emperor’s family does it, well then it’s got to catch on, I suppose.
This odd paraphrase of what I was saying made me wonder what your experiences were.
If you agree that it’s obvious that you’ll make better judgment calls when you’re in a good mental place, but you think it’s “convenient” to say that meeting your own needs enables you to take care of your children better, I’m not sure where the disconnect is.
People wanting nice things and setting time aside for themselves is actually… good? Healthy? Normal?
I mean, sure, you shouldn’t throw your kid in a dog crate and hit the bars or bring home rando predators but that kind of holds true for any age, right? If you’re being responsible – and it IS possible to go out on a date responsibly when the kid if four – then you’re actually engaging in some pretty healthy behavior. If someone is content with a life of self-exile and romantic martyrdom until the kid hits [whatever life stage] then more power to them but that doesn’t mean other people are wrong. Again, speaking as someone who has been on both sides of the fence.
(In the situation in the OP, I didn’t get the impression that the person was the primary custody parent anyway so the whole “How dare you date when you have a kid” thing is even more silly to me)
I agree that around when the kid is 4, maybe more like 5 or 6, is when it becomes more reasonable to start dating again.
What I pointed out about the situation described in the OP is that if this was the case and he only just started dating this woman, he absolutely shouldn’t ditch his kid’s graduation for her. And if he has been dating her for years, there are fewer and fewer scenarios where that’s possible without him being a massive asshole the further back you go, because 4 years is just not a very long time at all. That said…
Once again, this being IMHO, I’m expressing my own opinion.
Obviously some people are fine with being much less involved in the lives of their children, and I don’t think they should be thrown in jail or shunned from society in that situation.
The Geneva Convention likely prohibits torturing analogies so I will speak more directly.
I suspect you greatly underestimate the harms, psychological and emotional, of adult isolation and loneliness, the importance of meaningful companionship. And to be very clear, raising a preschooler or multiple kids is not that companionship. Those who look for addressing that need from their kids are being unfair to them. Of course there are other meaningful adult relationships than romantic ones. Close friendships. But the point of them is that involve caring about each other: emotional bandwidth.
I readily acknowledge that some are so overwhelmed and exhausted from dealing with a preschooler and work that they have no capacity for anything else. For them needed self care is a good night’s sleep and maybe some exercise. And others are needlessly hovering and obsessively worrying. About kids who are fine. Projecting their anxieties onto their kids. Imposing it on them. To the point that they wouldn’t consider leaving a 16 year old home alone maybe. These individuals are kneecapping their children from becoming resilient adults, IMHO.
I of course can only be expert on me. I would have zero problem with a trusted sitter on a week end and going out on a date. I have and had bandwidth enough to care both about my child and others and would be fine talking to a romantic interest on the phone after child fell asleep.
Thankfully I never had to be in that circumstance. But first child had strong connections with me and plenty of my bandwidth through my being an intern and resident and my wife having multiple medical issues postpartum. In comparison a date or two a week and regular phone calls and texts to a romantic interests would have not have been a demand.
My “selfish” attitude has resulted in four resilient independent adults that I am happy are my children. I am very confident they do not wish their parents hovered more closely when they were small.
It’s not a need in the same way as food and water. Plenty of people have to live without a romantic partner because they can’t find one, they manage.
I already said as much. I never said no one should ever have a relationship while raising children; I’m pushing back on the idea that a parent having an SO is essential to their mental health, and always the best thing for everyone in the family. I’m not trying to accuse anyone here of anything (and I’m damn tired of people jumping to that conclusion no matter how carefully I phrase things). But it’s an idea that can easily be used to justify selfish behaviour. And there are parents out there who are already inclined to put themselves first, and don’t need the encouragement.
Yeah, this.
More like a healthy diet versus crap. You can live off crap. But not a great choice if you have healthier food as an option.
If I was “paraphrasing” a particular paragraph, it was something DSeid said, not you:
I guess the way I would express my feelings on this is that there is a hierarchy of needs that must be met, and a scarcity of time and resources to meet them with.
If you’re sacrificing your own basic necessities in order for your children to have some trivial luxury - say, you’re losing sleep to make sure your kids do some extracurricular activity - I agree that this is bad.
On the other hand, if you’re sacrificing a luxury temporarily so that your kids can have luxuries of their own, I think that’s kind of your job as a parent. For example, if I was a single dad, I wouldn’t be able to afford my fishkeeping hobby. Aquariums are expensive, and there are a lot of things that I can afford for my kids now, with my wife’s income aiding us, that I wouldn’t be able to afford if she wasn’t here. So I’d have to take cuts to luxuries of my own.
I think romantic relationships are nice to have, but they are not a basic necessity. And romantic relationships - especially the sort of stable ones you even consider bringing around your kids - take a ton of time and effort. So yes, during the time period that your kids need you most - the first couple of years of life - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that the luxuries you go to beyond your basic needs should probably be something a little easier to acquire than a romantic relationship.
YMMV, it’s your life and you can do what you want with it. I’m just sharing my opinion.
No, you won’t die without a romantic partner. But i suspect that many people will be healthier and in a better place to be a good parent if they have a romantic relationship then if they don’t.
And people vary a lot, in their emotional needs as well as in other ways. I’m not going to extrapolate my needs to the while world.
There are lots is scenarios where he isn’t an asshole. Maybe the mother is his child died in childbirth. Maybe it was an unfortunate burst condom on a one-night-stand and he’s stepped up to help rear his child but never had any other connection to the mother. Maybe his ex was abusive to him.
Sure, maybe he’s an asshole who abandoned his wife right after she gave birth. But the whole set up suggests otherwise. My husband’s father, in fact, abandoned his wife and children and ran off with the maternity nurse right after his third child was born. He would never even have considered going out of his way to be with his kids. Heck, he fled the state to avoid paying child support. If there’s even a question of this guy going to the child’s pre-k thing, I’m guessing he’s less of an asshole than my FIL.
First, I assume we agree that this isn’t a binary, but a spectrum, right? Plenty of things don’t fit into “basic necessity” or “nice to have,” but are somewhere in the middle.
For you, maybe having a partner is “nice,” but more on the “unnecessary” end of the spectrum. For me, having that sort of close partner is pretty important to my emotional state of being.
If I were a single parent, I wouldn’t be leaving my kid at home to get in Tindr. But I would absolutely be open to romance, because I’d be a happier and stabler person. I parent better when I have that sort of emotional connection with an adult.
That’s apparently not the case for you. For you, having a partner is “nice.” Cool! Vive la difference!
Of course it’s not. Obviously nothing is an absolute. It’s also not always terrible or a failure by the parent or bringing abusers into the home or any of the other stuff people are pearl-clutching about.
Sure. And using “But my kid NEEDS me!” can also easily be used to justify selfish behavior as you push the emotional burden onto some toddler because it’s easier and more comfortable to dump on a captive audience who sees you as the best rather than building and maintaining normal healthy adult relationships. No absolutes.