This is Plan B
God doesn’t heal amputees.
Maybe your friend is a modern day Job.
This kind of flies in the face of most modern Christian dogma that I’m aware of because it means Satan has some degree of power over God. In the Old Testament book of Job, Satan is only able to mess with Job because God gives his okay.
About a year ago a friend, Mike, was shot by a stray bullet in a gang shoot-out. The bullet missed all the vital organs except for nicking a kidney. Mike had surgery to repair the kidney. He fully recovered. Afterwards he said that he was very lucky that the bullet had missed his liver and other internal organs, and that God surely must have been watching over him.
I didn’t say anything but I was thinking that if God were really watching over Mike, God would have made the bullet miss entirely. As it was, I would have taken it as though God were angry with my friend, angry enough to punish him with a bullet wound, but not so angry as to want him dead.
If I were wounded by someone for no reason, I probably wouldn’t be happy with that person based on the premise that he pnly wounded me. I guess that rationale doesn’t hold if God is allegedly involved.
Pardon me will I go kill myself.
Since we don’t know what he’s up to, why assume it’s something good? Maybe God just sucks. That premise certainly has more evidence behind it than a benevolent God does.
Well-intentioned as this may be, it sets her up to think that not getting better is her fault for having insufficient faith. Similarly those people who urge patients to have a “positive outlook” create a situation where the sick are blamed (or feel guilt, anyway) for not getting better due to negativity.
Your state of mind or level of faith are not going to cure you of a serious medical condition. They might help you accept what happens, but that’s as far as it goes.
I have to say that I really, really dislike seeing statements like this. I know and work with lots of doctors including oncologists, and none have ever related telling a patient “You have X years/months/weeks to live.” What typically occurs is that the patient wants to know how long someone in his/her situation can expect to live based on average outcome for a given stage of disease. They might then be told X years/months/weeks, with the disclaimer that individuals vary so much that precise predictions can’t be made. This information helps people make plans for the expected remainder of their lives.
“You have __ to live” is something I often hear from promoters of alt med and faith-based “healing” who tell boastful and worthless anecdotes about how their cures defied medical science and those nasty doctors who gave up on patients.
Best wishes to your friend.
We’ve already been told god’s plans are for our eternal life, not the life here on earth. So expecting any intercession to make life better here is presumptuous. Suck it up, and just have faith that it will be better in heaven.
Kick the football, Charlie Brown!
Cut out the threadshitting. If you want to rant about religion do it in the appropriate place, not in this thread.
[Moderator hat off]
Granted I haven’t been to that many funeral services, but never once have I heard a priest or minister reassure the grieving family that the departed is now “herding lambs” or anything else like that.
I think the idea of God healing is actually what kind of broke me away completely from my Christian faith. I asked my mother, a minister, why God doesn’t heal amputees. She had no answer, and yet it did not shake her resolve that God heals. I can’t get with that inconsistency.
I was brought up in a Pentacostal church, where we were taught that Believers are bestowed with gifts from the Holy Ghost. Some people can speak in tongues. Others are blessed with the gift of deciphering (you rarely see them for some reason, and yet there’s a whole bunch of tonguers :)) And then others are blessed with the gift of healing. Usually the pastor has all the gifts and regularly exhibits them. Oh, it makes for a great show no doubt. But it’s very confusing, because not only do you see people still crippled and physically broken coming in Sunday after Sunday, but how in the world does speaking in tongues bring you closer to God and his kingdom? It doesn’t. Neither does jumping up and dancing in the aisles. So yeah, pentacostalism does not go well with an inquiring mind.
I’m agnostic, which for me means that I don’t deny that there could be a God. I just don’t think we’ll ever understand its nature and it’s a waste of time and energy to do so. Kind of like quantum physics. I can accept the idea of multiverses and string theory, but they’re so untestable that I don’t see the point in searching for empirical evidence and trying to understand them. But I have awe for the mystery of it all. I am not arrogant enough to believe that the human mind can really figure out everything–and I’m fine with putting the “unknowns” in a box called “property of a supernatural entity or force”.
Your friend is just trying to find hope in a horrible situation. I personally believe that God does not heal and that the human mind has all the tools to bring someone at peace without the hand of a higher power. But if some people believe they need an external force, however real or imagined, then I say what’s the harm? Whatever gets you through the night is alright.
Of course, since said “answers” are never verbal, that claim is indistinguishable from God not answering some (or any) prayers.
Hi. I thought that post had a possibility of raising some hackles, but I decided to post it anyway. Why? Well, for starters, the OP specifically invited atheists to “chime in and bring me to the dark side.” I apologize if you thought I was mocking the situation or general faith of the OP. To avoid such a misunderstanding, I expressed my condolences before saying anything else, and I also made the tone of my post rather tongue-in-cheek. I did that to avoid thread-shitting or spurring some debate, but..ironically..? Ack, I can’t think of the word I want. Well, it did give off a somewhat mocking tone.
The fact of the matter is though, that the line of thinking I posted, complete with scripture quotes and everything, is one way of addressing the Problem of Pain. I know because I experienced it personally. I used to suffer through some depression/anxiety issues. I was a strong Catholic at the time with a gaggle of Charismatic friends. One friend in particular repeatedly told me that it was Sin that was bringing all these troubles upon me. If I repented and stopped sinning, my brain would be healed! Long story short, it was all my fault. Part of me believed him and it made a bad situation worse. That’s probably what led me to pen such a bitter chestnut.
Now that we’re in GD, allow me to briefly say it saddens me greatly that the idea that bad things happening to good people is because those people really weren’t good after all, that they deserved punishment, is somehow easier for some people to swallow than the idea that God is imaginary. Case study: “The identity of the Japanese people is selfishness. The Japanese people must take advantage of this tsunami as means of washing away their selfish greed. I really do think this is divine punishment.”
So, there you have it.
My mother-in-law passed away last fall after battling TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT major ailments. She initially had a very uncommon disease affecting her auto-immune disease, and then ultimately added leukemia to her list. She passed away after fighting the good fight for a number of months.
My wife and I are atheists, but we are (pretty sure) we are the only ones in either of our families. This led to some interesting moments as other family members counted on prayer and faith to solve/deal with what was going on. No doctor ever said “You have X months to live”, but it was clear she didn’t have long.
A super-religious member of the family as much as said that “the family” wasn’t praying hard enough, or that the patient “wasn’t right with the lord” and these were the reasons she wasn’t getting better.
Hmmmmm, pretty sure the reason she wasn’t getting better was the fact that her body had been ravaged by two different diseases.:smack:
My wife had some rather heated discussions with this family member to back off, and eventually even other members of the family (theists, all) supported getting this woman to back off.
Regardless, in her last year on this earth, my mother-in-law had two diseases sent at her, and then was made to feel like a failure as a christian by someone supposedly “more christian”. Way to provide support there, supposedly omnipotent god!
Pardon me for not buying this whole kind and loving god stuff. If this is his idea of a “test”, then he is pretty much a jerk.
When fighting cancer, do anything and everything that you believe helps. ( I did and I won - 10 yr survivor) Best of luck to your friend.
Adding: Faith, whichever variety, helps reduce fear and anxiety, which is a known benefit all it’s own, regardless of any other quantifiable benefit it bestows.
When someone says “God is on my side” or some such it doesn’t have to mean that the actual Judeo-Christian God that everyone talks about in church is personally working to resolve the problem. It can just as easily mean that the person has faith that luck or chance or fate or whatever will work out in the end. I believe that a lot of people say “God” when they really mean “random chance.” Yes, It is irritating when Christians invoke God and/or Jesus all the time but I think we take some of this stuff too literally.
I do not believe there is a God. I do believe I would like things to turn out for the best for your friend.
I think this is true in a limited sense, like when people say, “Thank God” or “God forbid” or “God no”.
But when people say, “God is on our side”, I think they mean it pretty literally. At the very least they mean their side is just and righteous and worthy of god’s support.
To say God does anything is just belief. One could say the same thing about a carrot or a stone. If you get healed from praying, you say God did it, or if you get a serious illiness you can blame God.If you don’t get healed you can say,“It was God’s will”. I do not believe a Kind, Loving Being, plays such games.
Animals also get some of the same illnesses as humans and get cured. It seems strange to me that people now are cured of illinesses that years ago they died from. Now with medical science and new technologies they are cured from illnesses they died early from years ago. Even with out prayer.
There are people who depended on God’s healing and didn’t get well until they had treatments. Not long ago there was a boy in the news who’s parents didn’t want thim to get treatments, the law forced them to get them for him and he got better ( after he was getting worse).
One could look at the psalm 82 KJV and translate the passage," I said you are gods"…then in that sense one could say god heals because humans then would be gods!!
I’m an agnostic (or weak atheist if you insist) but I agree with this. I can’t tell you how many Christians I have heard saying things along the lines of “How could God do this to meeeeeeee?” as if becoming a Christian magically shields you from the ills of the world. I’ve read the Bible and it’s pretty consistent: those to whom God is closest often suffer the most in this world, with Jesus topping the “undeserved horrific suffering” pyramid. This world sucks. This world is also transitory. The point is not that God will protect you from all pain and suffering if you believe but that He will give you strength to endure them while alive and, when in one year or fifty you die, the pain and suffering will end and you get a happy rest-of-eternity. What matters is how you, as a Christian, bear your particular burden.
There’s a great line in Stephen King’s The Stand. The ancient Mother Abigail has to walk to the next farmhouse in the heat of a Nebraska summer and is finding it hard.
Praying to be healed is completely understandable but it is ultimately selfish and may also be praying to go against God’s plan (you know - the Ineffable one). Praying for the strength and wisdom to carry on and do God’s will - that will get you a lot farther in this life.
I don’t know what the “purpose” of your friend’s cancer is, from a religious standpoint. For all I know it’s to start this thread which someone will read and find something life-changing in its words. I do know that cancer is a funny illness (funny-strange, not funny ha-ha) and that mental attitude can affect the course of it. If your friend believes that she will ultimately be cured and it doesn’t happen, she’s going to have a crash in her faith when she finally accepts that fact, at exactly the moment she needs it most.
And the test for you, jt, as her friend, is to keep her going, to help her find strength and ultimately peace with her fate whatever it may be.
Soooo. Anyone want to give a shot at why God doesn’t heal amputees? I really always wanted to know that, myself.
I have heard folks say, “Well, he worked through the scientists who invented the prostheses.” but I don’t buy that, because when these same Christians talk about praying for cancer to be healed, they mean that God will do his magic to get rid of the cancer cells, right? I mean, even if he works through the doctors that give the chemo, they expect God to CURE the cancer. So why doesn’t he do that same magic to grow back the limbs?