God. I think I know what's going on with God.

Been kicking around a theory about God and his friends.

See, a long time ago God was pondering something (What?) and, being a Creator, decided he should create a system to help him with his pondering. A model of sorts. This model would involve the creation of beings. Into each being he would place a bit of his own mind. The being would cruise around doing what it wanted, interacting with other beings in the system for a while, until eventually it would die. When it died, the bit of God’s mind would return to him and He’d gain the insights learned by the being. Because the bit of mind was temporarily removed from God’s main consciousness, there would be no mental connection between the two while the being was going about its business.

God’s friends were delighted by the elegance of the design. All but one. His closest ally and wisest friend, Satan, urged caution and begged him to reconsider the plan for relinquishing control of one’s mind, even a small part for a relatively short time, is fraught with risk. Nevertheless, God proceeded with the plan and commenced with the creation of Earth. Satan watched his friend carefully as the project progressed. After 100,000 years, God seemed to become even more insightful, more empathetic, more benevolent. Another 100,000 years passed and God’s plans and general godly business took on even greater complexities, becoming ever-more elegant and ambitious. Satan began to relax as it appeared his revered friend had been right, once again, and seemed he was wrong to doubt His greatness and foresight. But then, God started to change. In subtle ways, His plans became complex for the sake of being complex. He became arrogant, intolerant, and petty to the point of cruelty. He began to demand complete obedience from those with whom he had previously consulted respectfully and deferentially. And Satan became concerned. Eventually, he approached God and suggested the design had run its course. He pointed out the changes he’d observed both in God’s treatment of His angels as well as how he treated his created beings—for He had begun to place them in increasingly difficult situations in which they often lived tortured lives and perished by unnecessarily agonizing devices. God’s wrath was explosive and immediate. He turned on his ally. “You forget yourself! These beings are of MY mind. The things I do to them, I do for myself. What I do for myself is not your concern unless you seek to usurp my position! How long have you been plotting, and how long has your simple mind felt over-worthy and jealous of my greatness? It does not escape me that you alone, the greatest of my creations, dares to limit me!”

Some of the angels overheard the outburst and understood the truth in Satan’s words. The ensuing struggle was legendary. Satan and his followers were driven from their home, and those who remained turned grim of countenance. They had learned, even as they smote their own brothers, that God had indeed changed and His word was the law. Gone were the times when their counsel would be considered, for God had grown intractable and agile of mind and his capacities far exceeded their own. They would be servants, no longer equals, and they willingly lay down their right to think freely.

Cast out, Satan and his companions retained free thought. They retained their love of their creator and considered him to be possessed of a new illness and in need of a cure. It was agreed the cure lay in freeing God from the design he had created so long ago, but being out of His presence it would not be possible to interact with Him directly. It was Satan who understood the path that had to be taken. They would enter the design. They would interact with the beings and try to understand the nature of the design and how God had been using it, for the beings were imbued with God’s mind, and yet unconnected with it.

Because they would be unknowable to the beings, The Fallen needed to proceed as flesh & bone. But they lacked the power of creation. They had to utilize beings. Initially, they possessed the bodies of beings that had been discarded after God’s purposes with them were over. The results were not always satisfactory because often the bodies were old and decrepit or badly broken or heavily diseased to the point where suitable interaction with other, healthier beings was impossible. Eventually, however, they learned to inhabit the newly-born. They coexisted in the beings with the mind of God and found much relief in proximity to even a part of their old friend. They learned much in this adventure, occasionally they even spawned with other beings and the result was the Nephillim and The Flood. It was at this point that God realized and understood Satan’s and his followers’ presence within the design. He guessed their aim was to disrupt the works, as Satan had urged him to do voluntarily, and his wrath was multiplied at their impudence.

Meanwhile, Satan had come up with a cunning plan to free his ancient friend of his self-made prison. God’s entire demeanor had changed as, bit by bit, his mind was altered by its participation in the design. Satan realized the process could be reversed or at least redirected. Because the mind of each being was separate from God, he could interact with them without interference. Using his gift of great wisdom, Satan began the arduous task of explaining the problem to each bit of God’s mind, and of convincing each bit that yes, God needed to stop this process. Having converted the fragment of mind to this way of thinking, Satan would intercept it before it returned to God. He keeps these fragments—all of which understand how things were before, and believe things have gotten out of hand—in a vessel. When he has enough, he will release them all at once. When they return to God, they will report their experiences and conclusions in a great flood and the result will be an epiphany. God will get the idea that it is time to stop, and that it was his old friend Satan who devised His salvation from Himself. And The Fallen will be welcomed back to their home.

It makes as much sense as any other god theory.

Very elegant myth. But you have glossed over the reason why God would get wiser and more benevolent at first and then become more autocratic and demanding later.

Or at least I didn’t catch it if you did explain it.
Roddy

It’s by no means fleshed out. I think on that front I’m dancing with “how much knowlege is too much?” Also, arrogance is, in my mind, the result of thinking you know more than you really do. Because He is being influenced by the experiences gained by fragments of his mind, particularly enlightened chunks will think they can conceive of the whole, but they really can’t. Also, arrogant thoughts being received from some “successful” fragments have accumulated. I’m kind of mirroring His behavior on the progression of mankind from cave-dwelling types to what we have become.

Also, and I didn’t really get into it but it operates on a lot of levels, the idea of growing and changing with the acretion of experiece to the extent that one becomes unrecognizable. Is it wrong to change without explanation, as God does? Or is it wrong to resist the change in others simply because you don’t understand it, which is where Satan gets tripped up?

I like it and it seems like a basis for good story.

Hey, it’s your story, do what you want.

Nevertheless: Pardon me for being logical about a fairy story, but you seem to be implying that the influence of early men (“cave-dwelling types”) on God was benign or beneficial, while the influence of “what we have become” is what turned him apparently megalomaniacal.

I don’t think it’s “wrong” to “change without explanation” (which is not the same as changing without intent or without understanding), but you seem to be implying explanations without actually stating them outright.
Roddy

This looks good. My own theory is that God was a jealous, petty god (or whatever) in the Old Testament. But when he made himself human, he learned what it is to actually be a human, and in the New Testament, showed how much he learned, so he changed his ways.

I don’t believe any of it but your idea is more sounded out so I like it.

I think it makes better sense if you give god a little more agency over the actions of the people he possesses. He can’t just be passively observing humanity as it grows and evolves on its own. If not the individual decisions (because they’re far too intricate to be worth the bother), he has to be responsible for guiding the direction in which humanity grows. See, the early beings would have taught god a lot without having to experience anything too horrible. Just learning how people survived given a generally simplistic environment (nice weather, water and food were easily procurable, they just had to feed themselves and build or find protection from the elements). But as time goes on, he already has that knowledge; there is nothing more to learn from simplism. So, he begins putting people in increasingly difficult circumstances. Thus we have extremes of heat and cold, wet and dry, predators (both animal and humanical [that’s a word and I’m sticking to it!]), emotional abuse, torture, prison, cannibalism, pedophilia, and murder.

My favorite bit, honestly, is that god has no regard for the suffering of his creations. In fact, he *enjoys *it, because varied and intense suffering leads directly to greater knowledge. Frankly, this makes a lot more sense to me than *any *modern theology. Since my mid-teens, I’ve thought that either there is no god, or he’s a mad scientist poking at his bacterial colonies in an earth-sized petri dish.

Keep it coming!

There is a problem with this, because the actual suffering is experienced, ultimately, by God. Unless the God bit is merely a witness who watches from within the mind of the being who, like you and me, thinks we’re alone in the universe–isolated in our on grey matter. Either way, God gets to feel terror and pleasure as well. Except He’s got the big picture and knows he is ultimately safe and that knowledge takes the sting out of fear. If I were Satan, I’d be wise enough to be more concerned abut why my buddy has become such a masochist. Why is he so keen on understand suffering?

My brother is pushing me to do the full write up and publish it. He thinks it would be a good movie. I don’t know about that, but it occcurred to me that God is horribly antisemitic in this scenario. His “chosen” people always are the target of persecution and some of his nastiest experiments, and since Heaven/Hell isn’t part of the Jewish system, that means they don’t actually harbor a hunk ‘o’ God’s mind. Which means they’re just props. So maybe Mel Gibson could be cast as God?

Why does that matter? Wouldn’t all people’s experiences be filtered back to god, regardless of their belief in him? Just because somebody doesn’t believe in god or heaven or hell doesn’t mean god can’t still be watching through their eyes. His hands-off treatment of humanity pretty much necessitates inhabiting believers and non-believers alike, including Jewish peeps. And if you’re sticking to the idea that god isn’t guiding any of humanity’s actions because he’s just a passive observer, there’s nothing anti-Semitic in it whatsoever. It’s people that suck, not god for making them do anything.

Isn’t that what Joseph Smith found on the Golden Tablets?

If by “Joseph Smith” you mean “John Milton” and by “golden tablets” you mean “dreams he later dictated to his daughters because he was blind so nobody really knows for sure if it was him or his creative offspring just writing under his name to overcome their lack of credibility in a patriarchal society” then, no. But it’s certainly an influence. :slight_smile:

Yes, that’s what I meant. But I like your story better. Except it could use some lasers.

Don’t tempt me, I could probably work lasers into it.

By the way, there’s plenty about the OP that I still don’t know how to address. Obviously, having a broken mind myself I tend to focus on the idea of parts God’s mind acting on their own, and I’m very much in love with the idea of dedicated loyalty such as Satan possesses so I like that bit as well. But there is other stuff I’m not even thinking about that could be relevant. I’d like to know what that is and welcome some input. Unfortunately, my brains are working so badly these days I can’t manage more than 5 minutes of concentration before I get lost.

There’s another explanation. God is bipolar.