God

Great Debates
41

My attempt at explaining God is feeble at best.
I am supposed to describe something as nebulous as GOD in less than half a page? Something like GOD is love maybe.

Using a “dogma” isn’t the best way. I am also just putting this out to explore the"possibility" that god and man are of the same race or at least that mankind has the potential to become a Universal Civilization capable of the responsibilities of a greater citizenship in the Cosmos". That God could be a word for a truly advanced CIVILization. One technologically advanced as well as advanced in their behavior and treatment of and towards each other.

Scripturally, God is said by some to exist in a different time, a place where all things are present before him.

I consider a black hole where time stops…to me that means that every moment of “now” that ever existed (I don’t know about the moments that will exist) converges at the timeless event horizon of a black hole. If GOD can exist at the center of a black hole all things that ever happened would have some capability of being observed from there. If the process of existence continues for an electron at the event horizon, that would seem to suggest there are finer processes in the universe that exist outside of time as we think of it. I put it this way because there are things in physics that suggest there is superluminal support for the processes of existence. (One example is the center point of the earths orbit around the sun. As the sun moves through space the center point for the earths orbit also moves. There is no 8 minute lag time for the force of gravity as there is observed for the speed of light comming from the sun to the earth, if there were a gravitational lag, earth would have either been flung into the sun or away from it many millions of years ago.)

In a nut shell. Religion may be nothing more than an effort to see beyond our own death and end of existence. If there really is nothing more, Shall we use that as a reason to treat each other better,… or worse. … If GOD doesn’t exist, shall we excuse ourselves from Civilized behavior.

From some replies, I am beginning to think that some use their non belief in GOD as a reason for not having to follow codes of conduct that engender trust, honor, kindness and other ways of behaving that have been considered of value. If we chose to set these values aside and become as every other brute animal, then of what use is the human intellect.

I think perhaps the concept of GOD has helped man make a lot of progress in a desirable direction.

Love thy neighbor; is advance behavior.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you: is advance behavior.

So Yes, GOD is LOVE. I can’t appologize for taking this through the whole round…It is less trite to me.

Thank you all for participating in what ever capacity you have. Even if it was just taking the time to even put down so much as a comma!

42

Well if we start from some of these characteristics
all powerful, all knowing, all present. Is it possible for mankind or some other evolved species to achieve these characteristics?
Within the Universe it is pretty clear these characteristics cannot be achieved (all powerful, infinite energy within a finite space, becomes a singularity; all knowing, quantum uncertainty means we cannot know everything even about the smallest systems; all present, in being present we effect our surroundings and so change the thing we are observing).
But if a being could escape from the constraints of time, and thus be essentially ‘outside’ of the Universe, but still to be able to observe and interact with the universe at any point in time and space, they become capable of all those characteristics. It isn’t even sertain that escaping from time would mean that the being (or beings) couldn’t even create the Universe from which they escaped (since escaping from time, breaks causality, and so the cause of an event could occur after the event).
All just theoretical handwaving on the idea that escape from time is possible (this is stronger than simple time travel, which moves someone from one place in time to another, this is the ability to ‘see’ time as a continuous dimension, without being effected by it, and with the ability to interact with objects within it and the other three dimensions).

43

I think the concept of “god” is holding us back. It’s a throwback to a time when people couldn’t explain how things worked by testing and figured that the universe had some sort of controller that made it rain or allowed the crops to grow. A controller that could be appeased and brought to “our side” by the proper sacrifices and supplications. Now we should know better.

44

Unless there is an another scientific explanation for how our galaxy holds together. Have you researched it?

45

… which is always what I imagined the gaining of Experience Points in D&D to be like.

46

I don’t understand the quickening as explained in the Movie Highlander. I do think that the gaining of experience points in D&D could be very much like being “added upon”. Every thing we encounter brings us experience. I believe that experience quickens the mind.

I see quickening in a scientific perspective. In theory there is valid scientific evidence for
a kind of quickening through technological means.

If you take a microwave oven for example. As it runs it sends electromagnetic radiation bouncing around inside a metal box at about 2 gigahertz (a frequency of 2 billion waves per second).

If the magnetic field is allowed to exist but is canceled by lines of flux of equal and opposite polarity and intensity; (it is called superposition and it is a physical reality) Then in an object like a microwave oven operating in this manner, the meal inside would get old and cold rather quickly, instead of heating up (as viewed from outside the metal box). The reason for this would be; instead of electrons being pumped up to higher electron orbit shells, falling back and giving off heat; they just get their process of existence accelerated. This is possible because the canceled magnetic fields now contribute to the structure and process of the electrons existence. Literally this would be more existence in the same amount of time. The real question now becomes WHAT IS TIME? This applied to the quantum level would mean that the electron experiencing more existence in the same amount of time is perhaps really experiencing more time than electrons outside the metal box which has all the canceled magnetic fields bouncing around inside. (Canceled Magnetic fields dont bounce.)

Man has explained time but not defined it. The closest and most meaningful “explanation” of time
I have come across is that “time is a sequence of events, one followed by another, however small(quantum and subquantum levels), that when viewed as a larger event, appear as cause and effect”. Remember, if time did go backwards, the meteor falling into the ocean now falls back into the sky ALONG WITH THE OCEAN! What do you think happens to gravity if time goes backwards. Yes, they say time can go backwards at the quantum level and the fact is, that when you run the events forward and backward like a movie the time still goes forward.

If all this is real (and I believe it is.) It really does hold many explanations for events purported to be real in scripture.

( Understand that I am not trying to start a religion or even be religious. I am trying to share a view that says there is something really big (civilization wise) going on in the universe and humans are a part of it. Our technological growth has outstripped our social behavior. To change that our attitude needs only a small adjustment. Remarkably, it is the simple things that we find in scripture that can get us back on track. Then our technological progress will explode in a less cruel and more compassionate way.)

The fact is, time, where ever you are; will pass at one second per second. But. the differential I speak of is very real. and it does in fact exist. And it exists pretty much, as I have explained it.

In Gravity wells time paces out more slowly than in deep space. At the event horizon of a black hole time theoretically STOPS. But that is highly biased space.

A space ship traveling AT the speed of light would encounter stopped time. (the occupants are experiencing time at one second per second) The environment is also highly biased.

In the appreciable realms of our comfortable existence, where we all can comprehend time rather uniformly, things like this don’t seem to matter.

But if you could quicken your individual time …Say you had a back pack that could, through technological means accelerate your time. While I was standing over in the corner dropping my pencil on the floor, you could hop down to the 7-11 and grab a sandwich (in one hop) and be back before my pencil hit the floor. You can look at this in a religious sense if you wish. It may change how you look at the knowledge GOD (as a civilization) has, and how people in a fiery furnace don’t fry, and how a bush can burn and not be consumed and how one Jesus could walk on water and how if one, not quickened to the same “glory” (rate of existence) would be consumed by the mere body heat of the quickened ones that choose to stay in one place for a long time.
(more time, more thoughts, more consciousness, more knowing a small approach to all knowing. and being outside of the universe of “space normal time”)

I believe in the possibility that scripture may give crude hints to a science long past and even longer misunderstood. A science so old that even those who used it didn’t understand it…(Like computers and automobiles and humans now). Some knowledge that existed in some human minds Way before humans colonized earth…I believe in the possibility.

If we find no GOD, but choose to still behave in a civil manner. Holding to “The Golden Rule”
We may progress ideologically and technologically to fill the void we discovered. And be what we once percieved as God. We will some day look back and see our own path as ordinary and extrordinary. Ordinary because we know that there was no other way; extrordinary because we will not believe we did that. (Many today doubt we (humanity) even went to the moon)

47

So, if I understand you correctly,-

Timestopper of the Silverhawk’s is not just petty villian but a spiritually enlightened being? His chronal abilities are made possible not only by the chest pack, but by an advanced understanding of God, the universe and everything?

Flashback travelled back in time and violated causality not just by doing flips down a special hallway, but by dint of his spiritual enlightenment?

Hmmm-

Then we see that Mumbo Jumbo becomes a bull because he’s bought into dogma, hence his name.

This also explains the prophet robes and staff of Zero, the memory thief. He clearly stands for a theocracy that steals knowledge and replaces it with myth.

Buzzsaw is an obvious stand in for the senseless destruction that comes from power without ethics.

Mo-lec-u-lar has destroyed his preconceptions of self. This has given him true power.

MonStar's use of the MoonStar light to transform is so obvious I won't bother to explain it.
     It also becomes clear why his gargoyle/cyborg/robot is named Sky Shadow

The fact that the Silverhawk’s jurisdiction extended only as far as The LightYear Limit, is clearly a clue that only altering the rate of time can we achieve true power.
Zeke the beak is just a Jew trapped by tradition. Seymour(who’s sees far less than most other characters) the cabbie is a Christian equally trapped by tradition. He can no longer remember what faith he follows. His memory of parables has degraded to “Wanna buy a fish?”

 And it wasn't just a sight gag that the all knowing benevolent scientist advisor had a lightbulb head. He's become a being of photons. His experience of time is no longer capable of being described or even conceived by ordinary humans.

More the many references to light are clearly thinly veiled allusions to the speed of light and relativity-
Brigadier Brightlight
The Bounty Hunter’s defeat by a solar powered bazooka
The ship being named the Mirage
The themesong
‘Soaring through the heavens in the highway of their flight,
Silverhawks, the rainbow in the light’

And, AND,
When we look at Windhammer, we see that . . . hmmm.

We see that Timepropulsion is completely wrong. His entire fractal system breaks down. His arguments on superposition are refuted.

  Sorry Timepropulsion.
48

Something about my last post just didn’t seem right to me. After rereading some Von Neuman, Fermi, and Schroedinger, The correct equation reads

   'Soaring through the highway of the heavens in their flight"

Re-Email
First, when e-mailing a Doper, it’s a good idea to include your screen name.

Second, I don’t deny the existence of a quantum superstate. I find fault with Timepropulsion’s extrapolations about the further effects and uses of superstate.

Third, I fail to see what relevance Nieman Marcus has to this discussion.

49

The way I under the OP, Propulsion is telling us something like the following allegations:

  1. God and us are one.

  2. God and us are the greatest power if we exercise intelligence and love.

  3. Man by love declaring I AM can bring about the same change God can bring.

  4. God is the agent in whatever man is trying to achieve.

  5. A civilization in God is ineffable.

  6. Before man gives anything he must first know what he is giving.

  7. When man acts intelligently he as God grows.

  8. Death is the purification process towards immortality.

  9. The realization that we are God will bring us tremendous joy.

  10. Let us all then chant continuously: We are God, God is us.
    I have been told by people here that I write in a manner hard to understand. Even Bryan says that my writings are in many instances incomprehensible, even nutty.

Well, what do you guys make of the writing reproduced below?

Susma Rio Sep

Originally posted by Propulsion:

**

50

first, the mocking comment…

One of us, one of us, we accept you, one of us
Gooble gobble, gooble gobble,
We accept you, one of us.

Now the serious response- yeah. I’m a basic Trinitarian Incarnational Nicene Christian (in this area I am among
His4Ever’s ilk), so my view of God is pretty well defined, BUT I basically understand the OP & see it as worthy of
discussion/debate. I am reminded of a physicist/philosopher
who is a frequent Coast to Coast AM guest who said (paraphrased) “Since there is no God, it is up to us to do His work. We should not discount the religious beliefs to worship & pray & strive toward a higher morality for that is how most people channel their energies to manifest God in this life.”