“…throughout the world are almost always implemented as a matter of space or economics…” - cite? Cites need not only flow in one direction here people. Are you talking about the primary motivation for unisex bathroom implementation since the dawn of recorded history? Or within the past 50 years? 20 years? 10 years?
Here is an article making the observation that it is difficult to academically determine the origin/motivation of segregated bathrooms. But be warned, the article is by some of those pesky feminists.
We are at the beginning of a wave of “change in perception of gender identification”. Research is needed. Ideas are needed. Discourse is needed.
I am an individual that is not happy with the status quo. I do not think I am alone. Do we have critical mass? Apparently not yet, but times are a changin’.
I don’t have you all figured out. I don’t like having to link to a feminist article instead of having the Google-fu to find a long list of deep scientific study on the matter. Feminist articles can sometimes be dismissed, even by me.
This is a global issue, imho. You used the words “throughout the world” yourself. Cites on this topic of any kind are few and far between. I’m linking what I find as it comes.
Do you always implicitly trust the judgment of people you’ve never met?
If someone acts like an asshole to me, sometimes I’m inclined to return the favor. The point I was making with the statement you quoted was that if I am politely questioned, I will respond in kind. I do not always add the bit about revisiting stereotypes, I do so when I feel it is necessary. I do always make eye contact, and I do say in a controlled and civil manner that I know what bathroom I’m in. If someone pulls some serious attitude with me, like doing a double-take that perhaps is noticed by others in the restroom, then realizes that I’m a woman, but proceeds to make a show of questioning me anyway, in a pathetic attempt to save herself from what she considers an embarrassing situation that was my fault, because I’m the one who caused her to do the double take…those are the ones who get the laughter.
Cookies- You seem to demand tolerance and acceptance but you don’t seem to be willing to extend the same courtesy to the vast majority of us poor schmoes for whom “gender identity” is not really an issue. Many of us go about our daily lives and never give a second thought to “gender identity”. Many if not most people see absolutely no need or benefit from unisex bathrooms. I think you need to step back and try to get a little perspective on this issue because it is not by any stretch of the imagination a “global issue”.
I was under a different impression.
And I think the term “unisex bathroom” is a little misleading. Or maybe it’s not.
I don’t care, personally, about two or three one-person, one-stall bathrooms. That seems perfectly normal to me.
An “Ally McBeal” style situation in a public place would be a recipe for disaster and entirely unwarranted.
To be honest, I don’t even care if a woman comes into a men’s bathroom to use the stall (although why any woman would want to, given the state of some men’s bathrooms at happy hour, is beyond me). It’s typical where I’m from for her boyfriend or a passerby to “throw a block” by standing in front of the stall just in case.
God-damned commie anti-‘merican flag burnin’ hippies. Hair so long y’all cain’t tell if it’s a man or a woman. Should be made t’ enlist and be sent t’ 'nam. Yup. That’ll learn 'em good.
No one, not even the woman at the center of this imbroglio, is offended about being mistaken for a man. It’s everything that happened after the mistake that’s offensive, not the original mis-identification.
Do you acknowledge that there is a spectrum of potential tones and attitudes that can be involved in these confrontations within the restroom? I’ve already said that I do not bite the heads off of just any woman who at first thinks I’m in the wrong place. If I am confronted with hostility, I may very well get icy with my response. If it is implied that I am “to blame” in the whole awkward situation, I will imply that perhaps there if anything is to “be blamed” for the situation, it would be out-dated stereotypes.
If I experienced what allegedly happened in Manhattan, I could see myself making more of a scene than this woman did, once it became apparent that speaking to me or looking at my identification did not rectify the situation. It would depend on the situation.
There are some situations where I would find an exchange offensive, an “honest mistake” not being one of them.
But that’s the thing. These aren’t “outdated stereotypes”. In almost all day-to-day encounters my minimal expectations for male and female presentation are met without a hitch. Even though there is a growing and proper acceptance of fringe sexual identities, there isn’t really that much of a change in the mainstream to “out-date” the stereotypes. IMHO.
This is a vitriolic pit thread prompted by a situation that pisses me off. Some of my posts have contained vitriol because people have either not read previous statements, have jumped to conclusions, or have said things that were worthy of vitriol all on their own.
Then we seem to disagree on this fundamental point.
Also, I provided a series of examples in the other thread that have nothing to do with “fringe sexual identities”.
A double-mastectomy cancer survivor with no hair due to chemo.
A woman in a baggy jumpsuit/coveralls and a baseball cap.
A woman with facial hair.
How common, in your world view, do such situations (confrontations…sometimes unreasonable or hostile…based on misinterpretation/misunderstandings involving gender) have to become until you would be comfortable with society needing to revisit gender norms?
Well, not only you. But yeah, you. Which you should know already because I quoted you when I posted that. AND you responded to it, using those very words (posts #67 and #69). All of which makes me want to remind you of my suggestion: ease the fuck up!
I have not been convinced the bouncer has done anything wrong.
I can “understand” how a woman may be extremely upset at being labelled a man and evicted from a ladies toilet.
In the same way someone who is over 21 can be accused of being underage and there ID ignored and subsequently shown the door.
It happens, and the bar/restaurant reserve the right not to serve and exclude people from their premises.