When looking for a nonpolarizing, noncombative athlete to make your point you went with Muhammad Ali?
You think God sent an angel down to get you out of a drunk driving ticket. Your opinion on God’s actions and response to piety should probably not be worth very much.
On Topic: Prayer goes against the idea of God having a plan. So the Christians who believe in the power of prayer are chuckleheads. As it happens, devout practice of Christianity produces chuckleheadity.
Here’s the part that gets me. Tebow is far and away the most vocal about his beliefs, but he’s also far from the only Christian in the NFL. Often in postgames interviews I’ll see someone casually thank God or mention their minister or whatever. Often I’ll see a large number of players from both teams kneeling and praying together before and/or after a game. The only reason anyone makes this sort of connection is because he’s so vocal about it and so many simply forget that probably the majority of the other 1700 players are Christian as well. Hell, tons of well known players are actually fairly prominent Christians as well, but it wasn’t blown out of proportion. Maybe the fact that he isn’t that good and succeeding beyond expectations makes it difficult to believe God isn’t involved, where seeing a player like, say, Randy White go out there and clearly be amongst the all time greats, making the connection with him having also been a reverand at the same time and God making him play better doesn’t seem as relevant.
Assuming you’re sincere in your confusion and not trolling:
Tebow has never said he prays to win; he’s said he prays that nobody gets injured, and that he does their best, and no one acts dishonorably. When I played ball in (public) high school, we always prayed in the locker room, but it was never, ever “God help us win today.”
Of course, even if he doesn’t, other certainly do. But there’s no contradiction implied, since nobody over the age of three expects that all prayers are answered in the affirmative. You make a request, and it’s answered or not. You’re praying to give yourself serenity, to make yourself content with what God wills to happen. You can certainly also request things, but anyone who prays at all has certainly seen their prayer requests go unfulfilled, and I’m sure that’s true of Tebow.
Either way, a believer holds that God played a role in the outcome. Ergo, if team A wins, it’s because God willed or allowed it to. If team B wins, it’s because God willed or allowed it to. That’s why questions such as the poll asks are kind of silly; to believers, pretty much everything involves some degree of divine intervention, even if it’s just giving Tebow (or anyone else) ability and opportunity.
For those genuinely inclined to believe, prayer is not primarily some kind of candy machine where you put a nickel in, turn the lever and the gumball drops out, and you feel justifiably angry if it doesn’t. Only an idiot who couldn’t remember the hundred other times his prayers were unanswered would think that way, and while Tim Tebow may not be a rhodes scholar, he’s not an idiot.
Hence, while the “what if the other team was praying,” line may seem clever to a nonbeleiver, to a believer it’s a complete nonsequitur.
You mean Reggie White. Randy White opened a chain of barbecue restaurants after his football career.
There is a famous pastor named Randy White, but he’s a different guy.
Either prayer works (to even some degree) and the gumball drops out because you put the nickel in, or god has a plan and the gumball will drop or won’t regardless of what believers do.
Do Christians believe their appeals change gods preordained will?
Do they hate the Broncos? Don’t they know the story of Samson?
Goodness, gracious. Going from being a (self-reported) virgin to Katy Perry is a recipe for a heart attack. Or at least some STDs to report to the team doctor.
In my experience, most Christians don’t think hard about it. They view it as petitioning a king.
And that the Chargers miss their field goal attempt.
That’s a theological question that differerent people answer differently, and I’m not really interested in the finer points of theology. But even those who believe strongest in trying to “change God’s mind” do not think something’s gone wrong if their request is denied. They ask, they don’t get it, and generally they move on, assuming God has better things in mind. That’s obviously a flippant way to put it, given that what people pray about is sometimes very important stuff indeed, but it’s pretty much accurate. My wife prayed her mom wouldn’t die of cancer; she died anyway; my wife still has most of her faith.
The point is, it’s safe to assume that anyone who prays for a while has had many, many requests go unfulfilled, and has long since figured out that asking God for something does not mean you’ll get it, and has, however and for whatever reason, maintained their faith anyway. Thus, the possibility that someone else is praying for the opposite is not going to perturb them.
I stand corrected re: Tebow.
Has any person’s plea changed the mind of god?
Abraham: Genesis 18:16 - 33
Several times including Jesus healing the Canaanite Woman. It is shown as rare when God will not change His mind, such as went the King of Babylon was giving the dream 2 times, which Daniel confirms that God’s mind is firm on this and will not change it.
The national nightmare continues: - YouTube
That is the worst thing that ever happened in the universe. Tim Tebow has officially turned a part of Christian America into a mewling throng of mental-deficients.
I am hereby declaring a war on Christmas.
wow you’re way off.
the poll wasn’t “do you believe Tim Tebow is praying to win?” what tim prays for wasn’t ever part of the discussion. the poll is that 43% of people asked believe that DIVINE INTERVENTION plays a part in his victories.
so,yes, these people *are *saying that God is like a candy machine, giving Tebow wins. i didn’t say it. *they *did.
so there’s no cleverness in the line; these people honestly believe God is intervening. so my question is if they think He is (and remember, *they *do, because the poll freakin’ says so) what happens if the other team prays, too?
So was god fallible before or after he changed his mind?
i laughed so abruptly that you made me scare my dog. he should just date Zoey Deschanel. she’s the non-porno version of katy perry.
you’re sure injecting a lot of logic in something patently illogical.
and anyway, what’s your point? my question is still massively relevant: i have heard many, MANY coaches and players say “the lord was with us today” speaking of their victory.
people who do this–who say this–i’m asking them what the logic might be–because if team A prays to win the war and team B prays to win the war (again, something people absolutely do), whoever wins says “God was with us.”
how’s that work when both teams ask…?
for the record: stop calling me a non-believer. i’ve already explained i’m a contradictory “praying” Deist. i just don’t logically believe that if there’s a God It would give a rat’s ass about football, my well-being or me winning the pie bake-off. i don’t even believe He’d care if i live or die or that my cancer will clear up or anything else. i do not believe there can be an underlying force that set reality into motion that can after-the-fact randomly and arbitrarily intervene without all of existence becoming chaos. nothing, to me, about that makes sense.
in my mind, the “power of prayer” is the same as meditation or self-centering. it’s relaxing, focusing, and works in a personal manifestation way. i can’t imagine it’s anything more than *only *that.
and even if all Timmothy Tebow prays for is people not being hurt–why doesn’t that work? players are still getting hurt all the time. how is God reaching down to keep a silly millionaire playing in the grass from breaking an ankle any different than asking the same God for free candy, victories, or a monsoon of naked ladies?