Really? Got a link for me? This is gonna be great. Not that it changes anything about the incompetence of the involved intelligence agencies, but it ought to be splendid entertainment nonetheless!
You mean Inspector Clouseau was promoted to head up French Intelligence?
Another plausible conjecture: Seymour Hersh’s article for the New Yorker asserts that a section of British Intelligence was engaged in “black propaganda”, i.e., planting lies about Saddam and his regime in various news outlets (as if the truth weren’t bad enough!) In a compartmentalized intelligence outfit, where knowledge is shared on a need to know basis (the ghost of Kim Philby still haunts the halls of M.I. 6), it is entirely possible for one intelligence arm to pick up “blowback” (that is, bullshit) propogated by another and mistake it for the genuine article. A case of the right wanker not knowing what the left is doing.
Regardless, the Nigerian forgery is such a pathetic dribble of bullshit it should have been laughed out of the room. That it was offered as serious evidence by our Fearless Misleader is proof of mendacity or stupidity. I’m not sure it matters which.
Oh, and a second on the Motion to Demand Linky-link, if it please the Board.
Here’s one:
9
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1514-2003Apr9.html]Washington Times:
Man, I’m all thumbs today. Let’s try the link again:
Let me be the first to say that this cite isn’t the be-all and end-all, considering that it’s a second-hand account. But it did come from formal interviews being given by intelligence officials.
I think we’ll have to wait and see if this becomes an issue, so that we can get more clarification and corroboration.
Well, IF the intelligence sources really said this, then -as said- it still doesn’t excuse their incompetence in passing it on to the UN unchecked.
And why would France put out the forgery?
In order to make Saddam look bad? Unlikely, as France wanted to prevent a war, not give the US more reasons to start one.
In order to embarrass the CIA? Unlikely again, as it is the kind of fraud that (under normal circumstances anyway) would have been picked up by a 14 year old kid with internet access and a minimum IQ of 75.
So, if this is the claim they come forth with, I’m uninclined to believe it. I like elucidator’s scenario, though. Although it would indicate a very disconcerting lack of cooperation within the coalition. But it’s more likely than blaming France, that’s for sure.
Ah, yes, Tuckerfan, it does say that, but scroll down a little and it also says this:
Anyway, time will tell.
Bob
If France DID put the intelligence into channels, then given that they were doing everything they could to stop this war, there are only two explanations I can see:
-
They thought it was real, valid intelligence, and even though they were against the war they thought the U.S. should know about it.
-
They put an intentional forgery into channels, hoping that the U.S intelligence would take it at face value and report it to the media. Then the forgery would come to light and do serious damage to the credibility of U.S. intelligence.
Option 1 would mean that not only was France’s intelligence agency the one that was really incompetant, but that it went out of its way to give the U.S. intelligence that ran counter to its own national interests.
Option 2 would mean that France was doing everything it could to stop the war.
Option 2 sounds far more likely.
Of course, it’s still possible that France DIDN’T do this - I could only find the one corroborating site so far. Perhaps the intelligence official was wrong, or lying, or misquoted. We shall see.
Well, let’s assume that France wanted to sabotage the US war effort, and deliberately put forth this bogus evidence. In order for the plan to work, it would have to be a damn good forgery, for it had to pass the CIA before it was presented to the UN. Obviously, the forgery was so obvious that the CIA would have cought it had they checked it before sending it on as evidence. In fact, they admitted to not checking it.
So no, I don’t see how France could have done this. The fraud was too obvious to be expected to pass a CIA scrutenising.
But hey, you and me are both making WAGs like it’s going out of style here. 
France could have done it it the CIA is widely known (in intelligence circles) for jumping at bait and not looking skeptically at anything that supports their existing biases. IOW, if the French knew just how incompetent the CIA would turn out to be, they could do it easily.
OTOH, so could anyone else.
Sam Stone said
To steal a line from elucidator “From your mouth to the ears of Richard Perle.”
http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2553595
Just setting up the next round. Those pesky things existed, so they must have gone somewhere.
And if we don’t find them in Syria, after destroying the place, well, then we can assume they were shipped to Jordan.
And worth every penny I paid for it, pal. My comment stands. It was a bullshit assertion, and I don’t see you chastising every other poster commenting on that assertion. What he said is in fact not true. If the poster is going to get testy about being called on bullshit, there is a simple solution to that: don’t post bullshit.
Oh, and as an addendum, and as my final comment on this, from this site comes this comment
and from this site
Although the poster was correct on his having to register, that was about the third back-pedal. Personally, I remember that my ass was not about to be drafted, even with the drugs. And I’m almost sure that I would have remembered correctly if I had actually been in Vietnam then.
I am so sick of people throwing around bullshit anecdotes as a reason to believe their opinions that I can’t even put it into words.
Untwist thy panties, This Year’s Model; as a 1956 baby, I caught it as bullshit as soon as I saw it, too. Not only the assertion itself, but, as you point out, his use of it to flash his credentials, as it were.
I just kept reading to see if calling him on it was in order; to my way of thinking, he retracted it adequately, so I didn’t think it was necessary. Your mileage on that question obviously varies. However, even if I had thought it still appropriate to pound him on it, I think the fact that I had read the entire thread would have stayed me from phrasing it as though I was the first one who noticed the inconsistency. That was the sense I got from your post, whether you were trying to convey it or not.
The reason I chose to chastise you and no one else is that, at the time I was posting, you were the only one I had noticed jumping his shit who hadn’t already been called for a late hit.
I sense that you and I are on the same side, here, This Year’s Model. I also feel, that being right, we can afford to also be gracious.
Look, this is the last time I’m saying anything.
In my original post I was trying to illustrate to Coldfire that we grew up in different times. Just because omitted details doesn’t mean I implied them. My original intention was to show that I grew up with the Vietnam war and had it not ended I would have been drafted into it. That was my biggest concern while growing up.
If you look at the post times from when Coldfire posted to when I posted you’ll see it took me over 30 minutes to formulate that post. I’m not a skilled typist. I have to look up spellings frequently because I just don’t remember how to spell some words. While I was putting post together there was “death metal” music blaring from the adjacent room. One dog that wouldn’t stop barking and another that kept nudging my arm to pet her. It was a little difficult to keep my train of thought at that time. Yes, I went back several times and erased parts to reword and I fucking missed it asshole. If I wanted to lie about military service I would have done better then that. I was a fucking hippie back then. I didn’t say that either. I made an immediate correction to Coldfire with out reviewing my post and Coldfire did not quote my post. After the first correction I took the dog out then went back to look to see what I had done wrong. That’s when I saw I left out two words. I see I was also wrong about when the registration requirement was stopped. So fucking shoot me for that as well.
I’ve also noticed that the two people who seem to be demonizing me over my mistake have made no contribution to the original OP. It seems to me you are only here to continue to fucking nitpick and chastize me for a mistake. I hope you two never make one. You must be fucking perfect little assholes with nothing better to do. I will not judge this board by the actions of the two of you but I will however let the readers decide for themselves what you two are. I say you’re fucksticks with nothing worthwhile to contribute.
Oops, looks like I made a few mistakes in that post as well.
“Just because omitted details”
Should have been “Just because I omitted details”
“While I was putting post together”
Should have been “While I was putting that post together”
“I would have done better then that”
Should have been “I would have done better than that”
I would surmise though that even though I’ve corrected these mistakes I’ll still be called on them.
FWIW, I understood why you used the draft/registration example, I do not believe you lied deliberately, and I feel you clarified your initial mistakes in your later posts, skankweirdall. Don’t let the bastards get you down: happy posting.
Thanks Coldfire. That’s nice to know since I was really only talking to you in the first place.
Thanks also to kaylasdad99 and Desmostylus.
Notice that the pro-war faction is no longer even pretending to assert that Iraq presented an imminent, serious danger to US security via its nucular, biological, and chemical weapons and the ability to deliver them over here? Something that transcended any other threat we faced and required immediate action? That rhetoric has gone down the aluminum tubes, along with the African uranium.
Now, the hunt is on to simply find something that can be used for an “Aha!” moment. A couple of barrels with a crust inside, rotting in the desert, will be enough to get them doing a Snoopy-style happy dance as they crow about their supposed vindication.
Well, guess what, guys - it’s too late. Even if something shows up, the chances of it having represented an imminent danger to the security of the US are down into the statistical noise. The chances that Bush actually had direct, credible knowledge that he isn’t sharing with us are already gone - he made it up and hoped it would turn out to be true, just like the claim that Saddam was behind 9/11 or at least “Al Qaeda-like organizations” (whatever those may be), as Fratboy put it.
“But they must have hidden the stuff - or moved it, yeah, that’s the ticket”, you say? Consult with Occam, I reply. Get a grip - you got lied to and bought it, and the revelation of any new facts afterward won’t change that.
Syria Once Again Is Target of U.S. Ire
“I think that we believe.”