I’m not sure that any laws were automatically broken in the asking for personal errands to be run on company (ie, paid) time. It would depend on the laws where you live.
But it’s generally considered a pretty crappy thing to do to a ‘subordinate’ on anything but a very infrequent basis.
I’m glad your wife got a new job (if I read the OP right). If I were advising a friend (I Am Not A Lawyer), I’d say be glad you got another job, move on with your life, and give back anything you have that’s the property of your former employer, including passwords.
I don’t think she does have a wrongful termination lawsuit. In every state except Montana, employment at will is the default and you can be fired at any time for any reason or for no reason at all - with the exception of an illegal reason. The big reasons for a terminations to be illegal are civil rights laws, but depending on the state there may be other illegal terminations such as those that violate the state’s public policy such as being fired for refusing to violate the law. Firing someone for refusing to pick up the boss’s kid from daycare is stupid, but unless there is either a personal contract or a union contract outlining exactly what the job consists of , firing someone for refusing to pick up the kid or get coffee is unlikely to be considered “wrongful termination”
Someone for whom you no longer work has no official access to you communication-wise. (“You” in this case being the OP’s wife). It’s good karma to turn over whatever codes and passwords are being requested but you aren’t at a former employer’s beck & call. If there are any threats involved, I would wait until the correspondence is official (not via telephone and not via personal email; certified mail that you sign for would be appropriate) and then reply with the requested information in an equally certified way so that there is a track record showing that you provided it.
If your wife signed a contract with XYZ Corporation, she is probably still bound by its terms, regardless of what individual owns XYZ Corporation at any given time. Small corporations change hands all the time, but that doesn’t automatically void all their existing contracts.
Even if there was such a ‘no compete’ agreement signed, it does not mean she could not go and work for a competitor, does it? As long as company secrets (technology, financial, customers, etc.) are not revealed, she is free to work wherever she wants, from my understanding. I did this early in my career and only got a nasty gram in the mail from my former company warning me not to divulge proprietary technology info to my new company, which was a direct competitor to my former company.
And being a real estate office, I could hardly imagine what “secrets” would need to be protected, other than the crazy amount of money realtors make in fees in proportion to the actual work they do (but that’s a topic for another thread).
I was speaking in general terms. I don’t know enough about non-compete agreements to speculate. Also, I should have added something like “assuming the terms are otherwise enforceable.”
Usually a non-compete agreement means just that, you can’t work for a competitor or open up a competing business yourself in a specified area for a specified time. My husband signed one that prohibits him from working for a competitor - he can go to work for a company that sells to his company or to one of his company’s customers but not the competition. If a noncompete is written too broadly, it may not be enforceable. One of the reasons the FTC is looking to basically ban then is because they were being used for jobs where it made no sense - my husband is a sales rep, so it makes sense for his company to want to prohibit people from taking their customer list to the competition. Subway wanting to keep sandwich makers form going to work at Jersey Mike’s does not make sense except as an effort to keep employees where they already are and not need to raise wages. Non-disclosure agreements have to do with not disclosing information.
No , it doesn’t make you a slave- you can quit. Here’s a New York law firm on the subject of wrongful termination - you will notice that nowhere does it say that your employer cannot fire you because you refuse to perform a task that you don’t think is part of your job. Another from Texas. and California . And if it’s not illegal in New York and California, it’s not likely to be illegal anywhere. It might be nice if an employer couldn’t fire a programmer for refusing to mow the law, but in the absence of a contract , they probably can ( except maybe in Montana)
First, in any further conversations with the former boss, be polite and professional and do NOT curse. And record any further conversations you or your wife have with her (and make a note of time and date.)
You should provide any passwords or other company information to her, but with this caveat: Tell the former boss that, while you are surprised that she failed to learn the things necessary to run the business, you will be happy to provide information to her. But you will require that she give you written instructions signed by her to do so.
Yes, I mean a piece of paper signed by her. The instructions should reference the termination, ask for the specific information she needs (passwords, codes, etc.) and confirm that salary and accumulated vacation time will be paid immediately. Do not, however, try to impose a quid pro quo such as “passwords upon receipt of payment.”
Fairly quick read. While I can’t promise it was written with the help of a labor and employment lawyer (much less in the OP’s jurisdiction), it does comport with my basic understanding:
I can speak from experience that does not always work.
Although when we all were standing in front of the judge and she heard that the Labor Bureau had ruled in my favor and the former employer basically said “F— that” and ignored it said fact did NOT sit well with the judge.
Oh, and document, document, document everything. Just in case you do wind up in court.
I had the impression (which might be mistaken) that the OP’s wife was out of town de-stressing and that his answering for her was something she was aware of and OK with.
“Protecting wife from an abusive, shrieking harpy of a former employer” strikes me as a potential reason for the OP to be answering the phone instead of the wife. Granted, we’re only getting one side of the story here but I’ve had enough experience where someone up the food chain thinks “office worker”=“personal servant” to believe that could be the situation.
There ARE people who do things like pick up the boss’s children, the dry cleaning, go shopping, etc. but they aren’t office managers. They’re “personal assistants” and it’s a different set of job skills.
Nope, nope, nope - don’t ever agree to a non-compete if you can possibly avoid it. That’s not a bargain I’d make.
But if you have a job description, in writing I see that as a contract. Mowing the lawn (or whatever) is not included in it. Wouldn’t that be wrongful termination?
Correct. Employers don’t need a reason to fire anyone. However what it will cost that employer is another matter. Many employers find this out the hard way.
Most are settled a couple days in advance of a court date, assuming the ex employees case is legit. Company lawyer will at that point generally tell company to cut their losses & settle.
Lots of armchair advice here . . .why it’s best to check in with an employment lawyer in whatever jurisdiction you’re in. Or just give boss lady what she needs & walk away. But if wife had a lot of years service a settlement could be decent. Then there’s the moral principal of it to be taught. We don’t want boss lady to continue treating employees as frightened boot lickers.
Nope, a written job description isn’t a contract and your employer can change your duties , your schedule and even your pay going forward and your options are either to accept the job with the new duties/schedule/pay , quit or refuse the new duties/schedule/pay and risk being fired. A contract is something that both you and the employer sign and agree to which might include a description of the job but usually includes much more than a simple job description. Most job descriptions include a line about “other duties as assigned” and most offer letters/handbooks will specify that employment is at-will. If you have a contract ( and it’s possible that you do) don’t assume most US employees do.
I am speaking to her old boss on behalf of my wife as I said before she is intimidated by her and I am better to handle her. Yes, it may come back to haunt us but for the time being it is the best course of action.
I am 99% sure no paperwork about a no compete clause was signed. After the kids started middle school she mentioned to a friend she would like to get a job and her friend said she knew of a real estate office looking for a receptionist. More of a handshake agreement back then.
Safe combination and most passwords were texted back to her old boss. No response back yet. Password for her work email (not the business’ contact email) at this time will not be given back at this time. No secrets there but was used for some personal business like the school contacting her or other times were she would want to see an email right away. She does not have the “administrator” password as the system was set up by the former owner through an IT company.
Wrongful termination? I don’t know. Other assigned duties covers a lot of ground. And yes, my wife refused to do the job (whether right or wrong) when told to do it.
As far as poaching customers I don’t think that will be an issue. She did no sales and her new job is managing existing accounts. Her new old boss did have as one of my wife’s “work goals” was for her to get a real estate sales license, but of course on our dime. Bad (good?) news travels fast as by Tuesday afternoon 2 other real estate businesses called asking for my wife and offering her a job because they heard she was no longer employed at her former employer. I passed along how to contact her and she accepted her new job and they are allowing her to start whenever she is up to it. She is still quite shaken by the whole ordeal.
Thanks for the opinions and hopefully giving the combination and password back she is done dealing with her old boss.
Hmm. A friend went to complain about her boss to HR. She was fired.
She sued and won. Details are too many to share here. For one, he threw away all of their reviews into the trash. Did not shred them. Lots of personal history/information in those reviews. Her boss was an ass, and an attorney. He should have known better. About one quarter of the department quit because of this guy. Including my Wife.
My Wife got another same job, and as soon as the ass was replaced, his replacement asked her to come back. She did. Making the same benefits that she had left and another $10 hour.