Long time reader, first time poster, putting IMHO due to potential legal questions.
My wife got fired last week for insubordination. Some background, my wife worked for a small real estate agency (the owner was the only agent) as the office manager. A few months ago the owner retired and sold out to a new owner who apparently thought that not only was my wife the office manger but also her personal assistant, like expecting her to run to Starbucks to get her a coffee because she was running late that morning. My wife was spoken to about not doing these “other assigned duties” and was given several warnings. My wife told her new boss she had no problem doing other assigned duties as long as they were related to her job as the office manager, leaving to get her boss a coffee because she was running late is not part of her office manger duties which should be administrative/clerical. Last Friday afternoon she texted my wife to have her go get her kid from daycare and bring the kid to the office as her boss was finishing up a golf game. My wife said “no” that wasn’t part of her expected job duties. Her boss replied back that “this issue of you not following my work requests have been explained before and potential results have been discussed, up to and including termination. You either pick up my daughter or else you are fired”. My wife responded “I guess I am fired.” She boxed up her personal stuff, turned on the alarm, locked the door and videoed herself putting her keys in the mail drop box. She was obviously distraught when she came home (first time fired from a job) and I told her to go visit her sister for a week to settle down and we will figure out what is next when she comes back. Knowing her now former boss is intimidating I told her we would switch phones and I would deal with her former boss if she calls.
So Monday at 8:05 my wife’s phone rings. Her old boss calling to ask where she is at and why she doesn’t have the office open. I told her that you fired her, read your text messages. 8:15 and she calls back needing to talk to my wife RIGHT NOW because she set the alarm off and the police are there and she doesn’t know the code to shut it off. I told her my wife isn’t available and hung up. Ignored the next few calls from her. Wednesday she calls and again asks for my wife. I tell her she isn’t available. She says I need to get ahold of my wife as she needs the combination to the safe and the computer passwords for her client’s accounts and bookkeeping/financial programs. I told her my wife isn’t available and she, as a former employee, has no responsibility to provide that information. She then told me if I don’t get that information we will be hearing from her lawyer. I told her my wife is expecting her pay from last week’s work plus 2 weeks earned vacation to be deposited in her bank account on Friday or else she will be hearing from our lawyer.
Today (Friday morning) her boss calls and said “your wife wins, she can come back to work on Monday”. I told her she received a job offer as the commercial property manager for “JKL Realty” (a competitor) for more money and better benefits, accepted the job, and she won’t be back to work for you. She said "WHAT!!, that is a violation of our no compete clause in her contract and I will be definitely contacting my lawyer. I said if my wife had any contract it would have been with the former owner and she doesn’t ever remember signing a contract like that. She said “well, it is implied”.
Sorry for the wordy post but considering my wife was fired does she “owe” her former boss such things as computer/account passwords? Is there an implied “no compete” clause that she would not go to work for a competitor? Don’t want to bother talking to a lawyer if her former boss has no leg to stand on with her threats.
Safe combinations and computer passwords would be the property of the employer (although they shouldn’t have to rely on the employer to obtain those, but it doesn’t seem like they have much of an It department if any). There is no upside to your wife retaining that information.
Probably not a bad idea to spend a few minutes with your lawyer just to clarify your wife’s rights/responsibilities in your jurisdiction. That shouldn’t be really expensive. My own lawyer doesn’t even usually charge me for a 15 minute phone call like that, although being organized and having a list of questions in advance isn’t a bad idea.
I’d say your wife should probably give over the safe combination and passwords to the business computers. The new (now former) boss is a colossal moron if she didn’t have those already, not to mention not knowing how to manage the alarm system. She sounds like the kind of entitled idiot that buys a business and expects someone else to run it for her.
Unless your wife signed a contract, on paper, which explicitly has a non-compete clause she is not constrained from going elsewhere, even to a competitor. The “implied” thing is bullshit.
Frankly, sounds like your wife is well rid of a bad situation. Best of luck to her going forward and good for her for not being a doormat.
Absolutely do not go back to an abusive employer - that “your fired” followed by “you win - you can come back” is also the sort of bullshit abusers engage in. Nope, make a clean break.
Non-competes are really only valid for key people with corporate secrets. They can’t prevent a person from making a living. An office manager position typically would not be subject to a non-compete.
Hand over the passwords and combinations. It’s best to avoid any conflict and move on.
Your wife should not poach any clients from the old firm. As an office manager I don’t expect she would be in that position, but just in case, it’s not going to be worth the hassle.
Definitely speak with an employment lawyer. Most give you free first consult, plus you (your wife) could well be in the money (wrongful dismissal), or at very least know where you stand because ex boss sounds like she thinks she knows everything and it could well be legal black & white before she’s convinced otherwise and to leave you alone.
Yeah this is what I would suggest as well. Perhaps they can be texted over and then just wash your/your wife’s hands of this whole situation. If the former boss keeps calling after getting the security info, and your wife getting the final paycheck and vacation payout, tell her to fuck off.
My position on that is; clients that are happy can’t be poached. Further to that, it’s the clients choice if they want to go elsewhere (unless maybe they’ve been offered a hell of a good bribe).
Exactly. And, since it’s property of the company, it’s incumbent on the company to keep records of them.
What were they going to do if the wife went on vacation? Close down the whole business.
She should let the company know what they are, but a company that doesn’t know enough to have a record of that information won’t last very long.
As for the non-compete, they’re illegal in some jurisdictions and the FTC is looking into banning general non-competes nationwide. They are used as a threat to workers, with the company thinking the worker would not contest them.
That sort of abusive boss that view employees as personal servants/serfs are the sort that would say “I can’t spare you”,“I can’t approve that time off”, etc., etc. because employees aren’t entitled to time off like real people who own businesses/are executives.
As you note - that sort of business doesn’t last long. The OP’s wife is better off elsewhere.
This comes up repeatedly in IT. Yes, it’s incumbent on the firm to maintain this information. That being said, court cases have ruled that not disclosing to the appropriate company authority can leave you both civilly and criminally liable.
I think there’s a lot we can’t advise on because you don’t say where this is all happening. Labor law (and most law in general) depends on jurisdiction. For instance, non-competes are actually viable and enforceable in certain places. So the dipshits in your wife’s former employer might conceivably have a point there.
But I don’t think there’s any such thing as an “implied non-compete”. It has to be in the employment contract or it doesn’t exist.
And as far as not giving back things like passwords or access codes, people have gotten in legal trouble for withholding those from their former employer. (As the famous ninja @FinsToTheLeft pointed out earlier.)
Of course, I’m not anyone’s lawyer, let alone yours, and this is not any kind of legal advice.
No, and no, and while you’re at it, you might have a case for wrongful termination, depending on your local laws.
But those cases all seemed to deal with people deliberately creating a situation in which only they had the passwords and whatnot, as a pro-active measure to avoid being terminated. In this case, the employer made no effort to access this information prior to firing the person, even though they had already had some discussions of possible termination (“Her boss replied back that “this issue of you not following my work requests have been explained before and potential results have been discussed, up to and including termination.”)
The boss was entirely negligent in not asking for this stuff while the employee was still employed. The employee was merely continuing the pre-existing procedures that had apparently been used for quite some time. They has taken no new, pro-active steps to deny the boss such access. After they were fired, they’d have no obligation to do anything.
That said, I’d offer to tell them, in exchange for a one-time consultancy fee. Something high enough to send a message, but not legally unreasonable.
If your wife has any trouble getting paid or any more threats about implied contracts, contact the Bureau of Labor and Industry, or whatever it is called in your state. Many times a call from them to the former employer works as a wake up call for the former boss not to fuck with you. I would call them and file an official commplaint even before talking to a lawyer. They are there to explain and protect employment rights and laws. No employer wants to get these people involved in their business.
Your wife probably would have been eligible for unemployment since she was fired. If the old boss makes any noise about suing, have your wife say she’ll file for unemployment for the time she was out of work. Employers don’t like unemployment claims since it raises their rates.
As someone in HR I’m going to ask the following and don’t take it wrong: Why the hell were you in communication with you wife’s former employer? When you saw that her former employer was calling, you should have informed your wife but otherwise left it alone. By telling the former employer that she got a new job with a competitor, you have potentially made your wife’s life a bit more complicated. So just to summerize, there was no reason for you to communicate with her former employer. If I were your wife, I’d be embarrassed that you spoke on my behalf and I’d be super pissed at you.
Unless your wife was a highly compensated employee, the odds of any non-compete clause being being valid are in her favor. That said, I can’t think of any reason for her to keep the password and safe combination, and I’d just give it to her former employer and be done with it.
Giving back the passwords and codes is your wife’s decision to make, not yours. For what it’s worth, if she wants to be done and move on, she should do it. If she wants to get into a power struggle and possibly face legal consequences, she can choose that instead. She can. Not you.
There is some benefit to your family to make the transition as smooth as possible. Sure, it may feel good to fight back, but that can get costly. The new owner may have a lawyer on retainer. That’s common for a business. She may be able to file lawsuits without any additional cost to her. If you have to start fighting things in court, that’s going to be $$$ in attorney fees and time away from work. Even if your wife is under no obligation to give the passwords to the new owner, proving herself right in court is going to have a lot of costs associated with it.
Eh. I work in IS. It looks pretty clear that this company did not have an IS/IT department. Small company. So I suppose that the office manager would have that stuff.
I don’t blame your wife at all for leaving. But the owner should have had that information, or access to it. Short of getting some IT pros in there, your wife is the only way for her boss to get rolling.
Her boss sounds like a complete ass. I would certainly help my boss and coworkers with helping them for some personal duty. But not a lot. We did that during COVID.
The boss is completely unstructured/can’t manage time to ask a worker to pick up their kid because they are playing golf. Quite ridiculous.
That bridge is already burnt for your wife. I would forward codes, passwords though. To hell with them. Might keep you out of the courtroom.
She has a wrongful termination suit anyway, if she wants. To keep sensitive information after termination, would not look good at all. See: Donald Trump.