Youse guys see that people from ( so far) 14 countries and 47 states are calling in pizza orders to Mad town pizza joints and telling them to deliver to the protesters?
How cool is that?
That pizza (Ian’s Pizza) is delicious, by the way. Had a slice of Mac N’ Cheese at the Capitol this evening.
It has actually been donated by all 50 states, plus over 20 countries by now. They update the board that shows it twice a day.
This may backfire big time. As usual the arrogance that goes with too damn much money allows the Koch suckers to pull the trigger too soon. There are still apparently enough realists who realize they will not be fabulously wealthy someday and they too can rob the middle class and exploit the poor for great wealth.
They are trying to do harm to average workers. Perhaps some of our masses will understand that cutting salaries and benefits for a particular group hurts us all.
Our race to the bottom has been on since offshoring started. What happens if government workers still make a decent living ? People would clamor for those jobs. Therefore you have to find a way to cut their salaries too. Bring all the people down to a lower financial level, remove their worker powers , and they will be more manageable.
Just calling them in, or actually paying for them?
Yeah - let’s require teachers to spend six years in college to earn a masters degree in order pursue what many of them see as a calling, and then pay them the same as Wal-mart cashiers. Because why should those uppity liberals (who have probably never read the Bible and attend flag-burning pot parties every weekend) think they have the right to make more than those hard-working real Americans.
Why do I keep having this ugly feeling we will see 20% unemployment before we ever get back down to 5%?
The people calling in are paying for them to donate to the protesters.
I would imagine the the only COD orders are being sent to Walker.
Only about half of public-school teachers have advanced degrees. No state requires it.
The median annual salary for public school teachers is about $53k. Private school teachers average $40k. (cite). The national median income is $44k.
We now return you to your previous rant.
Nice table. In order to reach that wonderful median you need 10 yrs experience. And a master’s degree. And work summers. And put in far more than 40 hours a week. There is a reason we pay teacher’s salaries.
We now return you to your previous obfuscation.
Made possible with union contracts. Care to guess where those salaries will go without collective bargaining? Isn’t that the whole point of Walker’s law? To reduce tax dollars being sucked up by teachers, so that local government can balance their budgets?
I agree, so the real question here is how do we quit importing a lower standard of living and exporting our middle class jobs? The only way I can see is to start slapping tariffs on imports. It would play havoc with inflation, but at least people would keep their jobs.
Of course then we’d be taking jobs away from the poverty stricken in other lands, but I care more about us.
Because clearly, all teachers do is manufacture have-nots!
This whole issue is souring my mood. I have had negative thoughts about WI itself for voting this guy in. Surprise! He was disingenuous. Except, he and his cronies follow a party line that involves talking about ‘liberals’ the way Haley Barbour’s papa talked about niggers. It just ain’t right. You all should have known better.
Q: Do you know why conservatives are so bad with science?
A: Because they can only see one side of an equation!
Hm. Budget crisis. Yah, we can cut. We could also raise revenue… with taxes on the top 1% who control more wealth than the bottom 95%. We’ve got a downright un-American distribution of wealth in the US right now, and the pubs want to make it un-Americaner. Y’all are watching it happen. Credulous, easily-led voters are buying it hook, line, and sinker.
I blame fundamentalist religion. Here’s my first principle in fighting this kind of ignorance. It may still be controversial, but here goes:
Y’all: Putting 2 and 2 together may be man’s way and not God’s way, but truly, it is ok to do it. The ability must be there for something, so why not nurture it?
In bold print, at the top: median year round income for all teachers is $53,230. So, no to the obuscation.
Median income for public school teachers with a master’s degree: $58,460
Median income for all master’s degree holders: $58,520 (cite)
As in most fields, your salary goes up over time. And yes, most grownup jobs require working summers. And yet most entry-level salaries are well below $38,210.
Gotta give you a harrumph for “Koch suckers”.
Well, the main thing is not so much salary as increasing the share they pay towards their benefits and pensions. Especially in Wisconsin, teacher benefits are way better than average, and they pay very little for them.
But yeah, the goal is to get their total compensation more in line with what the market for their skills is; and it’s a lot closer to what private-school teachers make.
I’d be willing to bet that the average private school teacher is much less qualified than the average public school teacher. How do those salaries match up when people of similar qualifications are considered?
From the cite above
Bachelors degree, base income only, public school: $38,210 starting, $49,630 median
Bachelors degree, base income only, private school: $28,260 starting, $36,250 median
Walker claims he campaigned on these issues. He must have been saying that in his head while his mouth said other things. Politifact says FALSE
WarmNPrickly you are correct, the average teacher in private or charter schools is if not less qualified certainly, for one reason or another, unable to get a job in the public schools. Milwaukee Public Schools has a residency requirement that keeps a lot of people out. Principals are also more likely to hire 22 year olds coming out of school than they are to hire older teachers with the same qualifications. (The teaching schools in this area maintain that the research says that teachers entering the field later bring more to a classroom and actively rectute those people). So sometimes the charters and private schools get a great teacher out of the deal but mostly they get people that couldn’t be hired elsewhere.
I actually found that proposition – the average private school teacher being “much less qualified” than the average public school teacher – rather dubious, so I looked up a cite. Figures from the National Center for Education Statistics surprised me, although firm conclusions require a more careful analysis. In 07/08, public teachers were rather more likely to have a master’s degree (44.5% vs 32.8%) and much less likely to have less than a bachelor’s (0.8% vs 8.1%); private teachers were more likely to have a bachelor’s (47.4% vs 53.9%) or a doctoral (0.9% vs 2.4%) degree. Eyeballing it, it also looks like private teachers skew to having fewer years of experience – probably due to teachers dropping ship for higher pay in the public sector.
While looking this up I read that private school teachers were more likely to have a degree in their academic area rather than education, but I found no good citation for it; and I’m not sure whether that counts as more or less qualified.
No it is obfuscating, because of the way median is bandied about in the media - in both conservative and non-conservative reporting - the public thinks that is the average wage, and they look at teacher, for example, “ah look at that rich son of a bitch - I can’t afford braces for my kid because that fucker is making $53K a year - and he gets summer off?” Quick - what are the three misconceptions presented in that assumption - and no peeking at the underlying data.
The median is a short hand reference point, and nothing more. Mean wages, which your cite doesn’t present (nor do most statistics, since it is usually lower, and everyone just wants ‘happy’ numbers) are far more relevant, along with prevailing wages - i.e. what do the majority of people earn, which are often the lowest of the three. Medians and other averages ignore demographic variables as well. One reason teacher wages are so high is a rather large percentage of them are over 50 - and thus nearing retirement. So lets institute a wage freezes, only raises tied to inflation - allow the demographic shift to occur, and wow, median wages sure fell. No pay cuts needed. Of course less people are entering the profession, since wage growth is stagnant, and the resulting labor shortages force districts to finally cave and offer higher salaries.
The highest paid teachers also work for the suburban school districts - the ones with the higher tax bases, which they use to then siphon off the best teachers, leaving the lower paid less well performing academics in rural and urban districts.
But then everyone wails and moan about the performance of those latter districts. And the more affluent move the suburbs so little Jimmy can get a better education, further shifting the tax base. Rinse and repeat. Do that for a few generations, such as between WWII and the rise of the suburbs and today, and yet people honestly wonder why education is in its current condition. And now that the districts have cemented, let’s ban collective bargaining and drive down wages across the board.
So acting like the median wage represents anything meaningful is obfuscating, but it is one of the favorite tactics of populists who just want simplified solutions to complex issues and think nuance is some tacky French perfume. I know what I would prefer from my legislators and governors. Unfortunately the majority of the voters decided otherwise in Wisconsin.
I must say I do like Governor Walker’s election rules. Elected officials must have a majority of all constituents (i.e. members), not just those who voted, and stand for annual elections. So why don’t we let Walker resign and hold a new election under his rules. I am sure he would have no worries about easily regaining his office. I see no reason why he would not support this. These are the rules he thinks are most equitable and fair, right?
Hell, let’s make corporations do the same. No more of that silly proxy voting and staggered boards.