Having grown up in western Pennsylvania, I long had the habit of saying that something “needs done” instead of “needs to be done,” since that’s the local dialect. No one I know disputes that adding the “to be” is standard.
However, I have another idea that might be brought on by my overcorrecting myself. I was recently challenged on my assertion that standard American English requires you to say “need to have removed,” and that “need removed” is acceptable.
Somehow leaving out “to have” seems wrong to me. Is it? Or are both ways acceptable? I like to be as precisely standard as possible when writing, so I’d appreciate it if anyone could set me straight on this. Thanks.
Omission of the “to have” is dialectal, but seems to be common in a belt from Western Pennsylvania west across much of the Midwest. A friend born and raised in Indiana and resident in Des Moines uses the construction regularly himself, and has characters from Des Moines use it in a web-published fiction series he has been writing. I asked almost this same question some months back (Sorry, no link) and was told it was exceptionally common in Western PA. It seems to be most common after “need(s)” but occurs in other contexts as well.
Note that substitution of the gerund is standard usage: “This bedroom needs cleaning” is equivalent to “This bedroom needs [to be] cleaned.”
Thanks. I figured the omission of “to have” and “to be” was both dialectical, but since I grew up in western Pennsylvania, it sounds perfectly right to me, even though I know better. I’m not anti-dialect, of course, but standard English is important to me. I guess both verbs follow the same rules in this case.
Frylock—Yes, that’s what I’m asking. They both seem fine to me, too, but I’m looking for someone to weigh in on what the standard American English rule here is. I know that “There’s something on my arm that needs removed” is non-standard, but the question is about “There’s something on my arm that I need removed.” Would the latter be standard or not? Viscerally I can answer that, but dialect is always visceral.
What I’ve always heard isn’t as much ‘to have’ but ‘to be.’
“The car needs to be washed” vs. “The car needs washed.”
or,
“My shirt needs to be ironed” vs. “My shirt needs ironed.”