I’ve been reading alot in the Great Debates forum of late and I would like to post there but frankly am scared to because I don’t think my debate skills are good enough. (and I don’t want to look like a git).
To that end I would like to learn how to debate properly. If I start a thread in Great Debates with a mock debate eg “Teach Me to Debate - Mock Topic: Chocolate Coated Boobies For or Against”, am I going to get in trouble?
Should I put the thread elsewhere?
Will the dopers help fight my debating ignorance or should I go elsewhere?
Well, it’s tough because the type of thread you’re suggesting is really not an appropriate topic for GD (because it’s not a Great Debate), but putting it elsewhere wouldn’t serve your purpose because you specifically want input from the inhabitants of that forum and no other.
My suggestion off the top of my head would be to devote some thought to what you want to learn, and frame your OP in such a way that there is something to debate. That way you could learn what you want and everyone’s happy.
Seriously, the best way to learn is by doing. If you’ve been reading in Great Debates, then you’ve probably witnessed many errors and debating gaffes. Just use the good examples (hey, that makes sense) and the bad examples (you ninny, stop resorting to name calling and answer the question) to get you started. Then just post. Other posters will happily correct your debating style mistakes on the fly. Perhaps not with the tact and subtlety you would desire, but we can’t have everything. As for looking like a git, well, you’ll just have to wing it.
Personally, I wouldn’t worry about a practice debate and just get on with the real thing. You’ll figure it out.
I think the best thing really is to start off getting involved in other people’s threads. You don’t have to start off with a topic of your own. Nor do you have to post some brilliant essay in some existing debate which completely rebuts every point the opposing side could possibly make, bringing not only that thread but all possible future threads on the subject to a complete halt. (This never happens anyway–not even when I post!)
Just post your observations on some topic which someone has started a thread on, or your observations on somebody else’s post in a thread.
Really, we don’t actually eat people over there.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to run to the grocery store and pick up some fava beans and a nice Chianti…
The one thing I’ve noticed is that you have to back your assertions up with cites. Pretty much every topic and point of view is covered on the web, so you should be able to find some well-respected news source (or raving wacko) to back up your point. Before you respond to/start a thread, do a bit of research. Sometimes the research itself can be revealing (e.g. my gun control arguments foundered because there isn’t enough country-on-country comparison data available).
I’d think that a topic like that would be more at home in IMHO. It’ll involve not necessarily hard facts that can be cited but rather the opinions of people on the best ways for you to debate a topic. Plus, in IMHO you’ll escape the heavy-handedness that can infiltrate many of the GD threads. And, as a bonus, you’ll learn how to debate.
A) You eat people…with red wine?!? People are, like pork, the “other white meat” (regardless of skin color). I read this somewhere, so it must be true.
B) Fava beans are just weird and only a small step above the dreaded lima bean.
A) Exclusively drinking white wine with ‘white’ meats is sopassé - as exemplified here.
B) That is a very monocultural attitude, Fenris. In Mediterranean regions, especially of North Africa, the legume that is known as the ‘fava bean’ (in actualy fact from the family *Vicia *, unlike other beans that are derived from the Phaseolus family) is standard fare, and can be found in popular dishes such as cassoulet.
This may be true. I’ve heard (from someone on here, but I’m not gonna go hunting for it) that human flesh does taste like pork. However, we’re not all white meat. Fast-twitch muscle fibers are white meat, but slow-twitch muscle fibers are dark (as they contain a greater amount of mitochondria). The relative composition of each muscle determines what kind of cut it is, and therefore what kind of wine goes with it. I don’t know if we contain any red meat, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
This information is drawn from Matt Brzycki’s A Practical Approach to Strength Training, 3rd edition. Track it down and he’ll give you at least five cites.
For more information on white and dark meat, see here for a treatment by the Master, and here for a somewhat more in-depth explanation from the Mailbag.
Hey leechbabe. I know what you mean about being afraid to say something in GD. I’m certainly no expert at debating but even though you may not have the best debate “skills” or even the best punctuation or spelling, (speaking for myself) you do have a voice and an opinion and it’s your right to be able to speak up.
I’ve learned the hard way that sites and “evidence” are needed in most debates because no one will “take your word for it”, but if you don’t start somewhere you’re never going to learn. So jump in, give it a try and just so you know there are some of us who won’t think your a git just for trying
Not only is it culturally biased, as pointed out by a previous poster, it might be that Fava beans have beneficial effects in countering severe disease. http://www.scienzavegetariana.it/nutrizione/favabeans.html
(It took five minutes to find this, and it helps the debate, in a manner of speaking, see how it goes? )
If you want to delve deeper into the craft of debating and understanding the fine art of verbal duel you might want to read up on the theory and art of debate also known as rhetoric.
Here is an introduction to the errors or rhetorical fallacies which you should avoid at all cost, and if your opposition pulls on you, you should call them on it.
This website gives you a pretty good overview and a fairly complete glossary of the theory of rhetoric and rhetorical analysis with explanations The Forest of Rhetoric - silva rhetoricae. It’s pretty high level, but definitely worth the effort.
In case you get called on logical fallacies or rhetorical guffaws, or if you suspect someone is pulling a dirty one on you, Stephen’s Guide to Logical Fallacies might help you.
As for looking like a git, well, you’ll just have to wing it.