Is there like, some sort of effort by somebody to send these people to the SDMB in an pitiful effort to “convince” us?
Or is it just me who has had that question occur to them?
OMG… I’ve been infected by the conspiracy virus!!! :eek:
I think on the Pre-pre-pre-AOL Boards, we were bombarded with guests who posited that Lincoln wasn’t really killed by Booth. 
Of course he wasn’t… he was taken out by squibs. Everybody knows that… just look at the footage, man!
This stuff is for entertainment purposes only, right? Nobody actually believes this stuff, least of all the editor of the hilarious diatribes, right? Right? :eek:
I had the courage to go ahead and watch the second video as well. They seem to make a big deal about the fact that objects filmed at different distances and against different backgrounds with cameras in different light conditions can appear to be different colors. Somehow the Illuminati committee in charge of the hoax managed to pull off a breathtaking deception by instantaneously editing airplanes into the live feeds of a dozen different news networks (and hundreds of home video cameras!) but failed to use the same color airplane in every shot. D’oh! Someone fire the intern in charge of the clip-art!
Well, at least the conspirators got the chemical brainwashing mix in NYC’s public water supply just right, because every single person who was actually there earnestly believes they saw airplanes hit the towers. Freaky!
Good thing, too, because that whole charade of deceiving hundreds of thousands of eyewitnesses and millions of television viewers simultaneously was much cheaper that just flying a couple of airplanes into the buildings.
[EDIT] PfffffffbdffSNORT
That’s the sound of me nearly expelling my soda all over my screen, when a few minutes into video #3, the words on the screen asked, “Is your intelligence insulted yet?”
Oh, the irony! 
I don’t think he was. I believe he was killed by the bullet lodged in him.
I’ve never seen the movie, but it was based on a book by John Varley. Not his best. In the book, the people from the future time travel on to doomed planes, grab the people, send them to the future, and replace them with replicas that would stand up to forensic examination. The plane stays in the present, and crashes just like it is supposed to.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Hollywood screwed it up.
The movie keeps that plot. It really wasn’t very good, mostly because of the crappy acting skills of Cheryl Ladd.
I really don’t know, I am not the one that made the videos or the OP. But once again if you watched the video you wouldn’t be asking “What proof for missiles when hundreds (if not thousands) SAW airplanes?”
You misread my quote i believe. tom said
“Third: their idiotic conspiracy requires that not only the government, but the entire news departments of at least five separate corporations, including everyone from the news editors down to sound- and camera-men and their spouses along with every person in Tower 1 on the south side of the building, have all gone along with the conspiracies and not one has broken in six years. (This depsite the fact that we could not keep Abu Ghraib a secret for even six months.)”
What I was saying was why would it take the entire news departments. The take the video seemed to me at least was that someone, in this case the government, took the video and edited in real time. Meaning that “the entire news departments of at least five separate corporations, including everyone from the news editors down to sound- and camera-men and their spouses” wouldn’t have to be in “on” it.
" It would be a cast of thousands if not hundreds of thousands to pull something like this off in the real world."
But didn’t 20 or so terrorists do it?
I don’t believe missiles hit the WTC like the video says but I still have some doubts about all that went down on 9/11. I am trying to give the other side a chance as the OP is nowhere to be found, you know a little devils advocate What I believe is that the government had intel, which there is proof that they did, and did not take the measures they should have to stop 9/11 because the administration knew that 9/11 would be very good for them. It allowed them to basically spy on whoever they wanted, invade Iraq, and get Bush in for a second term. Without 9/11 I don’t see much of this happening.
But as I’ve said in the previous threads on this subject, where the conspiracy theories really fall apart is in the motivation of the cabal. What does the cabal want to accomplish? To destroy the WTC on live TV, killing thousands of people and shocking the nation, in order to panic them into some ill-conceived foreign adventure.
OK, that’s not so far off from what really happened, except I believe the cabal was an organization of Islamist fundamentalists lead by Osama bin Ladin rather than rogue elements of the US government.
But suppose the identity of the cabal was not as we suppose. Suppose it really was some other group other than Al Qaeda. Suppose it’s all true.
What exactly did this cabal think they were doing, if they didn’t hijack planes and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon? I mean, if the goal is to make it look as if planes crashed into the WTC, you know the best way to do that? Actually crash planes into the WTC. If you want to trick people into believing that terrorists crashed planes into the WTC, then what you do is you ge some planes and you crash them into the WTC and you blame the ay-rabs.
Or you plant a truck bomb in the basement of the WTC, like the 1993 bombing, except this time you use a really really big truck bomb, and this time the cover story is that the terrorists tried again using the exact same method as last time. Or heck, fire a goddam missile at the towers, and make the cover story that the goddam terrorists fired a missile at the towers. See where I’m going with this?
The best cover story is the cover story that most closely matches what actually happened. You just plant phoney evidence blaming Saddam Hussein or Osam bin Ladin, or whoever, and go from there.
It just makes no sense to do anything else. You don’t stab Kennedy in the back of the head with an icepick and make it look like he’d been shot, rather you shoot Kennedy in the back of the goddam head in the first place but blame it on Oswald. You don’t stage a coup by fabricating evidence that Clinton is a satanist serial killer, you stage a coup by publicizing the fact that he spooged all over a blue dress and lied about it. All these conspiracies work best when they take facts that actually occured and present them in a misleading way.
WHY fire a missile at the Pentagon and claim it was a plane? WHY wire the buildings with explosives, when you’re going to ram planes into them? WHY create a burnt field in Pennsylvania and truck smashed airplane parts in, when the easy way to create a fake crash site is to actually crash a plane into the field? WHY commit crimes that leave physical evidence entirely different than the crime you claim happened? WHY, if you’ve got the resources to cover up any investigation do not have the resources to actually commit the crimes that were supposed to happen? WHY, if you’re ruthless enough to murder thousands of innocent people on 9/11 are you not able to make disappear the people who post these conspiracy theories on the internet?
I’m just asking questions here. I don’t have all the answers, I just know that the official consipracy theories aren’t telling the whole story.
IOW no proof at all…just (more) wild speculation. Because, if there WAS some kind of proof you would simply lay it out, instead of telling me its all in the video.
Let me put it another way. If the ‘proof’ can only be seen or understood (or anything else) by watching the video…then its no proof at all.
Sure they would have. There was no single source for any of the video coverage that day. Even leaving aside the impossibility of someone hacking AND changing the live video all of the LOCAL reporters and crews would have had to be in on it at a minimum…after all they saw it with their own eyes.
They weren’t pulling off the mother of all conspiracies…they were staging a raid. There were more than 20 terrorists involved. And quite a bit of luck. And they didn’t have to cover their tracks…its apparent that they WANTED to get the credit after it was done.
What you don’t seem to get is that, for your conspiracy to work there would have had to have been a large number (several thousand at least) folks who were so dedicated to the cause that they would keep their mouths shut even years after the event…an event that killed several thousand US CIVILIANS! There aren’t enough :dubious: for such a ludicrous assertion. Someone would have talked by now…some bit of information would have come out (from a credible source). The investigation alone would have found discrepancies (unless, as I said earlier, THEY were all in on it too).
Look…have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor? If you have then use it on this…if not, look it up. To put it basically, the if there are two competing theories that COULD be used to describe an event, go with the simplest one. In this case, instead of an intricate and overly complex (and patently impossible) conspiracy theory with NO PHYSICAL PROOF, go with the simple explanation…that some shlubs from the ME managed to hijack some aircraft (something they have done in the past, right) and crash those aircraft into two of the largest and most prominent buildings in New York (as well as a VERY distinctive military building in Alexandria). Its simple, its actually backed up not just by eye witness accounts (never the most reliable thing) but the actual PHYSICAL evidence…whats so hard to accept? Why do you folks need some other off the wall loony toony explanation?
Well, most of the last part of this paragraph is likely to get a warmer reception than you ‘playing devils advocate’ with the CT. As far as the government having intel, no doubt. Look up the term ‘fog of war’ however sometime and see what that really means…or just look deeply into any large, catastrophic event (like, say Pearl Harbor). Just because they had intel that something might be happening doesn’t mean they knew WHAT or WHEN it WOULD happen…or even IF. Its a pretty long stretch to go from the government having some fragmentary data about something possible and the government knowing exactly what was going to happen, when it was going to happen, etc. There is zero proof (or even close to solid) that Bush et al knew or even suspected something like 9/11 was brewing…or that Clinton et al did either. Not anything specific.
-XT
I guess organization was a bad word choice. I meant that it would take a few of the “cover uppers” to be in the New York TV stations to have the access they would need. But I don’t believe these videos, but I like the fact that people are questioning whats going on because some of the things around 9/11 still seem sketchy to me.
You really think this is the most important historic event to happen on American soil in the last one hundred and fifty years? Pearl Harbor in my mind is way more historic, in terms of well history, than 9/11.
I agree that it would take an incredible effort, but governments are in control of trillions of dollars and technology that we don’t know about so you can’t say it is impossible.
Trying to believe that this is what really happened, yes I believe that the continuous footage the was shown for the months and years afterwards would play into peoples memory of what they saw.
Exactly so why are you even reading this thread and posting in it?
Once again you misread what I said. I said the government OR some super secret society that runs the world. What I was getting at is that some CT’s think that the illuminati or the free masons etc are “running” the world
You are right instead of using missiles and covering it up they would just pretend to be MEern terroists and crash the planes into the buildings.
I guess there are a few things that still linger in my mind. It is probably from watching to many shitty CT movies on the internet and movies like Fahrenheit 911. But the pentagon just doesn’t seem like a plane crashed there. What happened there looks like something a missile would do, but maybe a jetliner flying fast enough basically is a missile. If the government would release better video of it I might rest a little easier at night 
The other thing that gets to me is how perfect 9/11 was for the Bush administration. Maybe some people just are that lucky.
Well, its marginally more believable anyway. Then all you’d need to do is get a few hundred people to go along (or wack them). Of course you’d need to get ObL and AQ to play along too…
Much as I’m no MM fan, I don’t think you could really put F9/11 in the same category as these CT movies.
I’m sure you’ve seen video footage of what a bomb or missile does when it hits a building…especially if you are an American. What happened to the Pentagon (and the WTC) looks NOTHING like what a large missile would to a building. Nothing. Missiles are high explosive devices. Hitting the Pentagon with a cruise missile (I assume you aren’t talking about something small) would have leveled the entire section of the building, blowing it completely out. What the Pentagon looks like is…well, like a large object (say, oh, a jet airplane) hit it at low speed and then burned (say, some jet fuel ignited).
Its really as simple as that. Seriously…next time you are watching TV and they show the effects of a large missile or bomb hitting a building, pay some attention to whats happening in the video. Then go back and look at the Pentagon again (I’ve actually seen side by side comparisons so its easier for me). If you are being honest and if your mind isn’t completely closed, you will immediately see a pretty stark difference.
Shit happens. Its not like Bush was the first President to receive such a perfect storm of events. Look at Roosevelt some time. And things haven’t exactly gone ole GW’s way SINCE then either. If he really were the genius mastermind (not enough :dubious: in the world for THAT :)) then why has he fucked up so much afterward? No one could, on one hand pull off the mother of all covert OP’s while on the other hand fucking up so consistantly afterward…
-XT
The loons assert that two feeds were edited in real time (or seventeen seconds, or whatever). The reality is that between the loons and my digging, we have seven separate videos (or videos and films) of the same event, all showing the same thing. Even if a couple of MIB happened to intercept the images to change them in real time, there would still have been a dozen or so engineers and directors watching the monitors who would have to be included for the two shots provided by the loons. (And no news outlet was running only a single video of such a huge event, so we also have all the cameramen, news directors, producers, engineers, and whoever for every major news outlet watching the unedited pictures coming in from all the other feeds that surrounded the buildings.) Once you start dragging in all the other various shots taken in by professionals and amateurs and whoever ands attempting to edit every one of them to change a missile to an airplane, you really do start to run into the problem of “thousands” of people. You have to track down every person with a private video, confiscate it and doctor it either without the videographer knowing about it or by bribing/coercing them to remain silent on the subject–and you still have not addressed all the other people around the videographers who are going to start writing to the papers or calling Rush and blurting out that they were standing right there and they did not see what is now being displayed on TV screens across the country.
No one claims that 19 terrorists magically captured all the electronic feeds of all the images being photographed and then hypnotized or bribed or coerced thousands of people to claim that they saw something radically different than what their senses told them, The claim is that 19 terrorists hijacked two (four altogether) airplanes and then flew them into various buildings. That is a much smaller burden upon them.
Trouble is with all this CT bullshit is that it makes people say “it doesn’t look like X, it looks more like Y”, when in fact they have no experience of what either X or Y would actually look like. I don’t know what a missile would do to the Pentagon, neither do you, but these inane videos and arguments try to persuade us that we do.
Have you seen pictures and footage of the crash site from the 2000 Concorde crash near Paris? - OK, it’s not exactly analogous to the Pentagon attack (the building it hit wasn’t nearly so tough, for a start, and it’s a different kind of plane, but there was no recognisable part of the plane left - just a big blackened mess where the hotel used to be - that’s what happens sometimes when planes crash.
Yeah I didn’t mean to lump them together in the sense that they are equal quality wise, more in the sense that they both have affected my views. I actually like MM and thought Sicko was a great movie, makes me want to get out of the US
cjh404: You do not exist. You are a construct created by the government. Don’t say it’s impossible: The government has trillions of dollars of technology we’ll never know about. You might have evidence for your own existence, I don’t know. I do know that you need to consider the theory that you do not exist as completely equal in value to the theory that if you hold a 50 pound weight two feet above your left foot and let go, you will feel pain.
What did I just do there? I proposed a completely nonsensical theory, provided absolutely no justification for it, and expected you to regard it as equal in value to a theory that has mountains of physical evidence to back it up. In short, I took your role in this discussion.
How can you avoid doing this in the future? Read through the Baloney Detection Kit as a first step. Then stick around here and learn some more.
Didn’t we suffer an invasion of Holocaust deniers two or three years back, or is my memory playing tricks on me?
Excuse me, but why do you assume that you’re qualified to make that judgment
Perhaps you have extensive experience with investigating missile strikes, or you’ve been in a lot of combat and know exactly what a missile strike looks like? Have you ever had any training in investigating disasters of this type, or perhaps you’re an expert or professional in some immediately relevant field?
What is there about it that site looks like a missile strike instead of an airplane crash? Can you prove the debris found at the site didn’t come from an airliner, and do you have any reliable reports, any at all, that debris from a missile was found?
And *why??!? * Why try to pass off a missile strike as an airliner crash? Why not just fire a missile at the Pentagon and say that terrorists had hit the Pentagon with a missile supplied by Iraq or Syria, which would be far easier and much less risky?
Look, I’ve got an ego as big as a battleship, and there have been all sorts of occasions when I’ve found myself at odds with authority. But I still have enough humility to recognize the fact that I’m not the least bit qualified (i.e. I have neither the training nor experience necessary) to investigate and pass judgment on such things as missile strikes and airplane crashes, especially when I have no direct access to the witnesses and physical evidence and there’s a solid consensus among the professionals and experts.
Perhaps you could do with some humility like that yourself.
As someone who was working in downtown Manhattan, literally across the street from the World Trade Center, that morning, I can state that this is such utter bullshit as to be completely worthless, and renders anything else you might state similarly worthless.
Planes hit the buildings. Period. Dozens of people I talked to, and fled Manhattan with that day, saw planes hit. My coworkers, who were on their way to the office that morning, saw planes hit. They were our first source of news and confirmations, long before any of us had a chance to watch the coverage on CNN. No asshole with a PC and a video camera making false ‘documentaries’ to reel in gullible, ignorant fools can change the facts.