Groundbreaking New 9/11 Film "September Clues"

But you’d need to not only have those covert operatives in several different buildings in New York, but also in L.A, and London, and every other major city that had reporters on the ground on 9/11, plus hundreds and hundreds of amateurs with cameras who caught all this on tape. Plus, once you’ve got the people whose job it is to make the switch in place, you’d need some way to keep the hundreds of news professionals in each building unaware that this vitally important footage of major, breaking news was being manipulated. You’d have an editing booth full of people screaming their heads off, wanting to know why they don’t have the footage yet, all in seperate locations scattered around the globe. And that’s something we would have heard about by now. Unless they were all in on it, too.

Which is why you should be as outraged about this bullshit as everyone else in this thread. I don’t know which particular theory you favor. No offence meant, but I kinda suspect it’s about as well grounded as the one presented in the OP. But let’s say you’re really on to something. You’re going to have a hell of a time convincing people that your theory is right, because the well has already been poisoned by all these nutcases babbling about orbital death rays. You want to talk about what the Bush administration really knew about 9/11 before it happened, a whole lot of people are going to write you off as another loon, simply because they’ve been bombarded by so many patently psychotic “conspiracy theories” that they put all these theories in the same box, and ignore the lot of them. Whatever view you want to put forward is only hurt by the existence of videos like those linked to above. Whatever the truth was about 9/11, the exsistence of videos like those linked to above only make it that much harder to get to it.

Fair enough, I was letting my rhetoric carry me away there. Make that the second most important historic event etc.

Actually, I can say it’s impossible. I’m saying it’s impossible right now. Because the government, while very wealthy and very powerful, is not magical. There are limits on what even the most advanced technology can do, and further limits to how far you can advance a particular area of technology without the antecedent developments filtering out to the general population. Technology does not exist in a vacuum. It comes about through a series of incremental improvements on previous inventions. If the technology necessary for the theory described in those videos to exist, even in a top secret government lab, those of us without government clearances should be able to see that technology on the horizon.

I mean, compare this putative government cover-up of a program designed to kill thousands of people with a very real government cover-up of a program designed to kill thousands of people: the Manhattan Project, which developed the atomic bomb during World War II. We’re talking about a top secret government super weapon program, carried out at the height of war time, on an invention that had no civilian applications, in a field of science that was so new it still had all the labels attached. And it was still common knowledge that the US was working on a weaponized form of atomic energy. The theory linked to in the OP, on the other hand, would have been carried out prior to the outbreak of any hostilities, and it’s not on a science that’s obviously offensive in purpose, so you can’t use the war effort as a whip to keep quiet the hundreds of scientists and technicians involved in the project. And it’s in a field with intense private sector interest: as advanced as the computer graphics and video editing techniques available to the government may be, the ones available to Disney, or Industrial Light and Magic, can’t be that far behind. (Actually, I’d wager they’re significantly more advanced.) If these techniques were possible with the most cutting edge technology available, even if they weren’t widely available now, we’d know they were around the corner based on extrapolations of what we have right now. But what we have right now is so far from what you’re speculating about that it’s not even on the radar.

Okay, but what about the days and weeks afterwards? Ten thousand people see a missile hit the WTC. That very same day, the TV shows a plane hitting it. Wouldn’t you expect people to notice and comment on the discrepency, at least for the first dozen or so times they saw the altered footage?

Because the truth is important.

You said, “The US government or some other super secret society.” Which is a clear statement that the US government is a super secret society. Which, obviously, is an absurd thing to say. But then, so is virtually everything else you’ve posted here, so I had trouble telling if that was simply poor wording, or an actual statement of your beliefs. I decided to play it safe and assume the latter.

… then you should lay off the aforementioned grass and cough syrup. :cool:

You realize you’re going to wind up in Gitmo for saying that, don’t you? :wink:

The hole in the Pentagon’s second floor was 13 to 16 feet. The hole in the first floor was 80 or 90 feet wide. Basically everything but the ends of the wings and the top of the tail made a hole.

I think Michael Moore’s doing some research on this site for his next piece - ‘How Gullible Are We?’

You know, I read on CNN’s website just the other day that they did a full sonar scan of the Hollywood set where Roger Patterson filmed the 9/11 crashes, and you know what? They didn’t find the Loch Ness Monster at all.

I call that very suspicious.

No, it does not. I was expressing a suspicion, not making an accusation.

Why not? Exactly.

Good thing I didn’t do that.

What’s the difference there, exactly?

Not that it matters to the point I was making (1000 lbs of high explosives would make a bigger hole than even 80-90 feet wide), but do you have a cite for this? I did a quick lookup (when I originally posted I just went from memory on the size of the hole) and I get this:

This is, of course, the entry hole. There is damage to the building from secondary effects (basically burning jet fuel and secondary explosions)…but the entry hole seems to be about what I said it was. Do you have a cite for an 80-90 foot entry hole? Or what exactly are you talking about?

-XT

Of course, the abovetopsecret.com site is a conspiracy den. The conspiracy crowd usually makes the case that the hole was only 16 feet across, much too narrow for a big ol’ plane like AA77. But they make that case using deceptive photos, especially one showing firemen spraying water, and unless you know what to look for, you may think that the hole visible above the water spray is the first floor, but in that photo the water obscures the first floor completely and the hole you see is the one on the second floor.

The best reference is the Pentagon Building Performance Report (warning: PDF). Pages 16 and 17 of this document have two photos and an illustration that show the first floor hole very well. Go ahead and download it - it’s not that long and with lots of pictures is a pretty quick read, and it gives you a very good idea of the thoroughness that this has been studied.

Anyone with message board/news group experience should be well aware that the difference between expressing a negative opinion about another poster’s identity and making an accusation is so minute as to be indistinguishable.

The reason “why not?” is that, historically, “expressing one’s suspicions” has exactly the same effect on the thread as “making accusations”–generally derailing the thread into a hijack discussion whether the suspicion/accusation is accurate. Therefore, such accusations (and their very similar “expressions”) have been forbidden on this board for a many, many years.

It was possible that you did not recognize the remarkable similarity between voicing one’s suspicions and making an accusation or that you simply forgot what history has demonstrated. For that reason, I simply called it to your attention without issuing a Warning or otherwise formally admonishing you. However, making a point of arguing about the matter in this Forum is not going to win you either the argument or any grace points.

It might be…but I suspect you didn’t actually read the link. That guy’s post was definitely NOT part of the CT…and I thought it was extremely well done.

Maybe they do…but its a stupid point. Do they expect the wings are some kind of ridgid structure that would survive such an impact not only intact but with enough structural strength to make a hole in a concrete building?

Not sure what point you are making here. I downloaded what you linked too…and the impact hole isn’t very clearly visible. Nor does the text on the pages you told me to read seem to list the size of the IMPACT hole in the building…which was what I was refering too. The rest of the damage looks like collapse damage (as I said, from the fire and, well, from a large airplane hitting it).

-XT

xtisme, here is the picture showing a spray of water obscuring the first floor, and showing the 15-foot hole on the second floor:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/images/image072.jpg

And here is the picture from the same angle showing the very large hole in the first floor:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/images/image075.jpg

You are correct, after me re-reading it I should have not put other in there.
I can now say that I believe 9/11 wasn’t a cover up, well at least that it was done by terrorists with airplanes. Main reason being if someone were trying to destroy the WTC and didn’t want to know it was them they would do it the easiest and most plausible way.

But I will say this, don’t you think that if there was a cover up that it would look like something logical happened. Obviously they will cover their trails and not allow the truth to get out. People bring up scandals and secrets that have been leaked, but you have no idea about the stuff that isn’t leaked. And that is why CTs do work, you can’t prove it because you don’t have access to the data and documents you would need. And that is also why it is a weak argument.

I also have started to read the 9/11 Commission Report for the first time, which is a good thing to link to in order to get someone like me to shut up about it not being done by terrorists with planes.

But by that logic, how could you ever possibly prove there wasn’t a cover-up?

In the world of actual debate, you don’t have to. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. And it is possible to prove that the official story has enough holes to sink the QEII without being able to even speculate on what the real story is.

In a debate run by the credulous and read by zealots, whoever shouts loudest wins. There are people successfully shouting away the sun right now.

You can show that there are holes in the official story?

I’ve been following this pretty closely for the last 18 months or so (that last post of mine with the links to Pentagon pictures is my own web site), and all I have ever seen are questions posted by the conspiracy theorists, indicating stuff they don’t yet understand. Pretty much everything has been answered.

If you have “proof” of holes in the official story, please bring them up.

I think he’s saying that it is theoretically possible to debunk the official line without having an alternative. That’s not part of the debunking process.

OK, I get it now: the US Govt. concocts a scheme to destroy two of the tallest buildings in NYC. They do this by:
-planting explosives in the building (and NOBODY sees this happening)
-managing to coordinate the blasts with the simultaneous collision of two commercial airliners (how did they do this?)
-murdering 3000 people, including a large number of NYC firemen(again everybody says nothing)
-keeping this secrect (that the USA conspired to muder 3000 of its citizens)
Yeah right!
I think beliving in a flat earth makes more sense.

On second reading, I think you’re right. It sure did sound at first like he was saying there are many holes in the official story.