Well, I didn’t know that. I’ve tuned with harmonics on an acoustic but I’ve always used my “handy dandy” inline digital tuner to tune electric. I can’t wait to get home and check it out.
{ If I wasn’t so old, Id swear I was Wordman’s little brother, following him around, trying to learn how to play like the “big kids”.}
The Behringer V-Amp gives you a lot of the functionality of the Line 6 Pod for about a hundred bucks. I use it in my studio sometimes and have been quite happy with it. Although I’m not a guitarist, the guitarists that have used it in my studio have been OK with it for the most part. All I know is that I can flip a few switches and my crappy power chords sound like Pete Townshend, so that’s enough for me.
Second this – Shadowfyre, you described your amp as a “practice” amp, and it was from a starter kit, if I’m following your descriptions. This sounds entirely unsuited to jamming with a drummer; it won’t provide enough volume.
Tell us about that amp. Makes, model, watts, speaker size, whatever you got.
One thing I’ll add on the subject of noise, since it hasn’t been mentioned, is that you can also use flatwound strings. They’re flat so you get hardly any noise as your fretting hand moves from place to place. However, I do NOT recommend it for you since you will lose that crunchy rock sound. I used them when I was playing a lot of jazz. Just mentioning it for the sake of completeness.
You could probably make do with just a fuzz box. That will probably give you a better distorted tone than your practice amp. A good delay pedal can be a lot of fun too, but you’ll probably be inclined to overuse it. That’s ok though. You might want a wah-wah pedal too. Reverb is pretty neat, but I don’t have experience with reverb pedals. I’m not sure how they compare to an amplifier with a reverb tank. Things like chorus, flangers, etc. usually sound pretty gimmicky to me, but they can sound good in the right hands.
Moog makes some great pedals called moogerfoogers. I have the analog delay but it’s a little pricey.
Wow - lots to comment on - I have a couple of meetings so will type up a few things, then come back when I can…
**Amp Size **- yep, tell us how big the amp is. If it is solid state, and I am pretty sure it has enough circuitry in it to be SS even if some tubes are involved, then it would need to be 20 - 30watts at least to get over drums. If it is a tube amp, it could be 15watts and do more than fine. My 18watt Tweed, all gained up with a Rat distortion pedal in the chain, does more than fine on big rock numbers with drums…
Channels - Clean, Gain, etc.: a lot of good posts on this so far in this thread. There is no set definition and many amp makers do all kinds of different things to their circuits, so know what “clean,” “gain,” or “overdrive” actually do is next to impossible to tell. However, conceptually, we know what they *trying *to do: in this thread, I geek out about Tube amps. Basically, as you know, sometimes you want a clean tone, sometimes you want crunchy and often you want something in between. With a simple tube amp, you can cover a continuous spectrum from clean to crunchy by dialing up (or down) the Volume control on the amp (to set how overdriven - truly, electronically overdriven - the tubes are) and the Volume and Tone controls on the guitar. Well, there is an art to figuring that out - and also Solid State amps don’t have that same organic sweep across the clean/crunch spectrum. So they pre-set channels in the amp to “punch you in” at a specific range within that spectrum. Clean is mostly clean, the other channel is in the middle and often they add an extra Gain/Crunch/Some Stupid Word button to add even more gain to the second channel and put you even further towards the right of the clean-crunch spectrum. This makes it easy for newer players and makes quick switches easy in gig/jam settings…
The implication is that you need to get to know your amp. For what it is worth, especially when it comes to old-school, tube-driven, operate-it-like-an-old-crystal-radio-set amps, the line is “the guitar is just a tool you use to play the amp” - in other words, the *amp *is the actual music instrument! Take the time to learn what all the controls do - set all the controls to a neutral position and dial one up and down and see what it does. Try each channel and get a sense for what spot in the spectrum it occupies…
Ooops - gotta run. I’ll be back. And **BubbaDog **- if you ever actually hear me play, you won’t be so impressed - I’m just a meat n’ pototoes rhythm guitarist who’s been around the block a few times who likes to tell stories…
Honestly, doper to doper, I’d suggest you stay far away from unnecessarily complex guitar gear and the inevitable insanity for as long as you can. Get yourself a peavey classic 30 (trust me) and find a place to jam with your drummer. And have fun! Of course there’s a million other things you need to know about gear, and your guitar will likely be the next thing to upgrade, but imo you don’t need any of that until you are experienced to know and want the difference, which will be soon enough once you start playing seriously.
Okay - I’m back and I guess the other topics to comment on are effects. Actually, I could not agree more with **Mojo Pin **- less is more, simpler is better and Classic 30’s are great values - alongside Fender Blues Jr’s they are a great way to get started with a true tube amp. But as I said upthread, many different rigs can get the job done, so I don’t want to sound like “okay - first: spend more money” right out of the gate.
As for effects - well, sometimes you need them simply to sound in the ballpark - e.g., The Edge and delay. But fewer effects is better - and worrying about whether to use stompboxes vs. on-board amp effects - well, if you are starting out with an SS amp, go with what is easiest for you. At this point, worrying about geeky issues isn’t where you’re at - you want to get over drums and sound like the songs you are trying to play - in order to have fun and keep playing. As **The_Raven **said, a Behringer or Line 6 modeling amp with a bazillion on-board effects, provided it is big enough to get over drums, can be a fine place to start. What’s really key, as I mentioned about your amp, is to get to know the effect - Delay, Chorus, whatever. But remember: Your main tone is your entree and the effects are spices. If your tone is great and made with “fresh ingredients” 
then you don’t need spices; otherwise, just add enough to enhance the entree; don’t try to sell a bad entree with too much spice…okay, I think I have killed that analogy dead…
[totally geeky hijack]
**picker **- I sometimes think about starting another thread about using compression, but I have feared that it would so geeky that no one would post to it. I love compression in mixes - putting vocals through it or the entire master to tighten up the sound. But when I put it directly into my signal chain (i.e., guitar → compressor like a Dyna-Comp → amp) I don’t like it at all - in fact, it squashes the dynamic responsiveness I place so much value on. I dig the extra kick of saturation it provides, but that is far from worth the price I pay in lost responsiveness. So I am stuck because so many players I know love compressors - so I wonder what I am missing or how they approach getting dynamic response when a compressor is on in their chain…
[/totally geeky hijack]
There’s a company called Tech 21 that makes the “Sansamp” line of pedals that emulate a tube amp using analog circuits. One is called the GT2, it has settings to emulate different types of amps and it costs something like $150. Behringer makes a blatant ripoff called the GDI21 that costs $30. They save money by making it out of plastic, mass-producing it in China instead of a little shop in Jersey, exploiting Tech 21’s research and possibly by using cheaper circuit components. It sounds pretty similar, at least over my computer speakers: link It might be the cheapest way to get some good classic distorted tones.
A lot of people post demo clips of different pedals on Youtube, so you can start there and also read Wikipedia to find out what the different pedals do. Here are some demos of what a chorus pedal does: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=chorus+pedal&aq=f
Ah, yes. Compression on a mix is critical for live sound repro, and if you’re running the entire group through the PA it is definitely the most useful tool you have. In our touring rack I have individual mono channel compressors (mostly alesis or dbx) to patch onto individual instruments such as kick, bass, and guitars using the channel insert on the ch. strip. Then I also also run a sidechain on my main busses (the drum buss, the vocal buss - we have 4 vox) and finally a compressor in stereo on the main outs. So in effect, certain instruments have up to 3 stages of compression, but for different goals. Take the kick for ex. - I keep a sidechain on it, to reduce ‘flappiness’ and give it punch, then the overall drum buss has another comp on it - to pull them all together into the same ‘dynamic envelope’ which I can tweak with panning and outboard eq. Then the main mix has a stereo comp running on it to do the same thing for the entire sound. Even in small clubs - 100-150 ppl, I mic all guitars, plus kick and snare. This way 1) i have control on stage of everyone’s volume in mains plus monitors and 2) I have that compression, which makes us sound much more highly polished even in a dive biker bar in East Bumfuk, IA. I often get compliments on the sound independent of the performance, and it’ pretty much due to that compression and eq scheme. Everything is secondary to comp and eq. The trick is to eq aggressively and compress delicately, and in stages.
Now guitar compression is a whole 'nother ball game. The reason I hunted down my original dyna-comp (and paid $350 for it) was that it is the exact pedal Dave Gilmour used on Animals for the liquid clean tone. With my 335, or my L5, the sustain is incredible, and with minimal crunch. Even a Strat will sustain at least 50% longer, and just a touch of vibrato will keep it rolling almost indefinitely. I use the TS-909 for any crunch.
My belief is that 90% of guitarists use compressors wrong. It’s not about compression, it’s about ringing and sustain, whether clean or dirty. Off the top of my head, the guitarists that really use it right: Gilmour, Eric Johnson, Mark Knopfler, The Edge, Alex Lifeson, Trey Anastasio. (to name a few)
On an acoustic, it’s a totally different situation, serving to normalize the difference between ultra soft picking and full speed ahead rhythm strumming in the gain of the signal, not the volume of the acoustic instrument. for that reason, on bluegrass and acoustic gigs, I run a Direct Line through a preamp to the PA for a baseline guitar or mando tone. Then I have a step-up mic for solos on stage, with a noise gate and a higher channel output so that my solos cut through the mix. I also eq that channel differently, so that it punches hotter and sits on top of the band. Once I step away from the mic say 12", the gate slams shut and no feedback worries.
</sound engineering geekery>
Oh yeah, and as to the dynamic loss: you’re correct, by it’s very nature a compressor will affect your ability to play as dynamically. I view it as a trade-off between dynamic and tone, and strive to find the sweet spot in the balance between the two. That’s where a vintage circuitry compressor, with a much more sweeping blend becomes so much more valuable than a modern comp, esp. the digital ones. Nothing worse than one’s and zero’s in my signal chain before the amp. Kind of like your point upthread about tube v. ss.
One guy I’ve worked with actually runs two Twins, with different inline efx off a three way a/b switch (a, b, a+b) - and one signal chain is more geared for dynamic playing and the other has a stage of compressors for sustain. Way more work than I’m willing to go to, but damn if he doesn’t get the best of both worlds. He also can get some pretty interesting stereo and phasing efx with rig. True ping-pong delay on stage? awesome, much more immersive than just coming out the mains. With a good PA it almost sounds quadraphonic.
**picker **- dude, you totally out-geeked me. I bow to your Sound System Superiority! 
Compression in the overall mix - yeah, exactly - if you don’t have the kick drum or vocals going through a compressor, you can’t manage the levels effectively because you have to have the volume turned down in order to avoid the peaks red-lining. That’s what I love about overall compression in a live mix. My drummer has a couple of Manley tube compressors that I think he puts in our PA rig - old, good stuff.
Compressors for guitar - so, you basically think it should be used for sustain on leads or situations where the chords need to decay over a longer period, so their harmonics linger and form a backdrop to the notes you’re currently picking/playing - typical for jangly guitar stuff. Well, that helps - basically I should have it on for a song or two - maybe one or two leads and a song like There She Goes by The La’s where I have to get all jangly. Hmm - that means its a Luxury Effect - I only need it to get through a couple of songs and it’s off otherwise…
Stereo rigs, where one side stays clean and the other side is for effects - yeah; never gonna happen. Unless you want to pay for the roadie!!
That helped - thanks!
Sorry for the delay in getting back in here, but I gotta pay the bills, too.
Anyway, my Peavey amp is an Audition 110. Not very big (25 watts according to internet sources) but I can get a lot of sound out of it, especially on the overdrive channel. The drummer that I’d be playing with would be using an electronic kit, amplified through some kind of speaker, I guess. So at least I don’t have to worry about getting a louder amp yet.
I was looking at a bunch of the cheaper multieffects pedals on amazon. Seems I can get some decent ones (at least for my situation) from amazon for under $100. Now I just need to convince Mrs. Fyre to let me spend it.
I’ve done a bit of noodling around on the net about effects and here is what I’ve found. Please tell me if I got anything wrong.
Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz - All pretty much the same. Causes clipping of the sound wave to give a very Heavy Metal sound.
Flange - kinda like a set wah. Gives the sound a kind of “waaa-oooo” dimension. Player sets it once and the effect has a regular “waaaa-oooo” cycle.
Chorus - Makes one person sound like two by copying what you play, delaying it, and outputting it with your regular output. Not sure how this differs from a delay box
Delay - See Chorus
Wah - Kinda like the flange from above but the player control over it. Instantly recognizable from classic 70’s porn to Jimi Hendrix’s superb Voodoo Chile.
Did I miss anything?
Also, forgot to ask.
If I got an electo/acoustic guitar, would I have to have a different amp for that? Or will my little Peavey be fine?
Chorus and Delay can be quite different circuits but fundamentally exist on the same spectrum of time-delay-type effects.
Reverb - shortest delay
Chorus - next
Flange - next
Delay and Echo - longest
No set rules, just a rule of thumb. Flange is not a “set wah” (that is an Envelope Filter) - it is a form of time delay. I believe it gets its distinctive sound due to the amount of delay and what is done to the split, delayed signal before it gets recombined with the original signal. I would have to check my copy of the Pedal Effects Handbook by Dave Hunter (essential reference, btw) to get more…
Your amp should be able to get over drums. You should buy NO effects - or as few as possible. Maybe a fuzzbox if you really don’t like your amp’s crunch tone and maybe a delay to have that distinctive sound available. For now, nothing more - you’ll just muddy the waters of learning how to play / jam with a drummer.
You can certainly use your amp for a Electric Acoustic - it will serve to amplify that type of guitar. Will it be as clean and pretty as an acoustic amp? Nah, but for now it will be more than adequate…
My $.02…
Uh, oh. Now you’ve stepped in it. There’s much debate over which is what, and I’ll wait for someone more erudite on the subject to clarify.
Well, I suppose you could think of it that way. It’s actually a time delay effect, where one signal is unchanged, the other is delayed by a varying amount over time, which gives you a ‘shooshing’ sound. Modern flangers are basically copying the sound of someone fiddling with a reel-to-reel, leaning on the flange of the machine to slow up the tape. Hence “flanger”.
Chorus is a very very tiny delay. Similar to flanger, not sure what the difference technically is, but more bright n shimmery.
Delay, see delay. A delay can cover a very broad range of time delays, can have several signal paths, can do all kinds of crazy stuff, from useful to horridly overdone. Chorus is a delay, but really isn’t used for that purpose.
Not like a flanger, actually a narrow tone control gone wild; boosts the tone in a very narrow range (as modified by the pedal), cuts it everywhere else.
I would say squeegee is exactly right on the flanger, but chorus pedals not only delay one signal, they apply a bit of pitch change to it as well, so one signal is slightly behind and slightly out of tune. On many chorus pedals, both the delay and the amount of pitch change are adjustable.
Yes, of course. I’d forgotten the pitch change part, something that often bugs me when using one; several chorus units I’ve used overdo this, and if available I dial the amount way down. The chorus on my POD is just broken, way too much pitch variation.
Distortion is a general term. There are different kinds of distortion, and they don’t all sound like heavy metal. Most of the typical rock guitar sounds come from an overdriven tube amp of some type. (Even blues players will typically run and amp right at the edge of its limits so it distorts just a bit.) To get this sound, you have to have a tube amp and you have to play it at full power. Some distortion pedals are designed to imitate that sound, but some pedals have their own sounds, which have also been used by famous artists. Fuzz means hard clipping of the waveform, which makes a harsh, buzzy sort of sound.
The delay of a chorus pedal is very short, imperceptible. Some use multiple delays, all very short, and the delays change with time, thus changing the pitch of the delayed sounds. It’s designed to imitate the sound of multiple instruments playing, where there are slight delays and slight differences in pitch, like a chorus or orchestra. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSL1w9UeSgc There are other effects in the “related videos.”
A delay pedal distinctly repeats everything you play, say a tenth of a second later, or a second, or whatever you set it to. The Edge from U2 is famous for using delay. This is what happens when his distortion and delay stop working: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u6Eeb0YrKY
Linkto old thread about the Pedal Effects book…
There’s a discussion about the differences across overdrive, distortion and fuzz…