Communicate too much and you are one one of the “nice guys” from http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml and if you don’t then you end up being dumped for not communicating enough. Why can’t it just be a science where there is a formula or rule to follow?
Science = Logic
Women != Logic
Simple!
ducks and runs
Huh. As long as Men Are From Mars was brought up I might as well mention I’ve read two relationship books by Barbara Deangelis: What Women Want Men to Know and Things About Men Every Woman Should Know.
What she says about communication between the sexes sort of tallies with my own experiences, in particular about the way women communicate. (And to be fair, women appear to give Deangelis’s stuff the most positive reviews on Amazon.) Still, it’s yet another relationship book that purports to know the difference between being male and being female, written by a relationship counselor, so caveat lector.
She writes that women process their emotions by working through them aloud with someone else; men process their emotions internally until they have the answer. When a woman complain that her men “don’t communicate,” she suggests, it’s because he doesn’t make her privy to his wandering thought process as he works things out; this makes her feel cut off and disconnected from him. Meanwhile, he just wants to give her the answer, unadorned by speculation and dead-end reasoning.
The other problem she mentions is that women tend to understate real problems and exaggerate unreal ones. She’ll say “there’s something that’s been bothering me about us,” when she means “I’m going to leave you.” And she’ll say “I hate my boss! I’m going to quit!” when she simply had a bad day and wants to vent for a while. (Look, a woman wrote this, so don’t blame me! 
) Men, she writes, misinterpret that entirely. If a man has a big problem with the relationship, he’ll say so; if a man simply had a bad day at work, he’ll just grumble and say it was nothing. This, she writes, is cause for a lot of confusion.
I dunno. I’m not a big relationship-book kind of guy, so sometimes it seems oversimplified, but more or less accurate in the broad strokes. I thought I’d throw this out there for the wolves to chew on. Does this make sense to either side?
FISH
Listen, people, if this made any sense at all, gay people would never have any communication issues.
Maybe they just have different communication issues than man-woman relationships.
FISH
From what I’ve observed gays seem to have similar communication issues.
Thankfully I’ve met enough men who I consider to be great communicators that I can’t help but see that the whole mars and venus theory is just a bit of brain candy.
I believe that communication problems have got less to do with the man-woman issue and more to do with different personality types and how they react together.
I’ve seen gender differences, but as to whether they are due to culture or nature or what portion due to which, I cannot say.
As a crude and broad generalization, one that not only doesn’t apply to everyone but doesn’t IMHO even apply to me, I’d say that men are not as inclined to tune into feelings and then interpret them and put them into words. That’s two different phenomena interacting there: a tendency on the part of males to pay a little less attention to what they feel, and a tendency on the part of males to be a little less skilled at putting personal experiences into words. And BTW, it does depend on what feelings are involved also (women – another weak generalization coming up here – are not particularly good about expressing anger into words, I would not say they do better than men with it).
Another factor that I’ve occasionally noticed is that a few women anticipate that The Relationship will be something that they will be custodian of, and if their male partner begins bringing up concerns and subjects of deep discussion based on his own interests in the health and progress of The Relationship, they (the women) go into this mode: “Oh, are you breaking up with me? You don’t want to be with me any more, is that it? Just come out and tell me so, if that’s the case, don’t make a fool out of me.” So their male partners stop making any serious effort to talk about Where We’re At, and after awhile when their girlfriends do they just kinda grunt and nod and don’t participate.
Her Side of the Story:
My husband was in an odd mood Saturday night. We planned to meet at a cafe for a drink. I spent the afternoon shopping with the girls and I thought it might have been my fault because I was a bit later than I promised, but he didn’t say anything much about it. I don’t remember doing anything to make him upset, but I could tell there was something wrong.
The conversation was quite slow going so I thought we should go off to some place intimate so we could talk more privately. We went to this restaurant and he was STILL acting a bit funny. I was getting really worried, what did I do? What was bothering him? Was he mad at me? I tried to cheer him up, but started to wonder what was bothering him. Was it me or something else? I asked him if he was upset with me, he said no. But I wasn’t really sure.
So anyway, in the car on the way back home, I said that I loved him deeply and he just put his arm around me. I didn’t know what the heck that meant because, you know, he didn’t say it back or anything. We finally got back home and I was wondering if he was going to leave me! So I tried to get him to talk but he just switched on the TV. Reluctantly, I said I was going to go to bed.
Then after about 10 minutes, he joined me and to my surprise, we made love. But, he still seemed really distracted, so afterwards I wanted to confront him but didn’t. I just cried myself to sleep. I don’t know what to do anymore. I mean, I really think he’s seeing someone else.
His Side of the Story:
Played very badly today — shot 87 - - -can’t putt for shit!.. Felt kinda tired… Got laid though.
Ferris mate, thats perfect - mind if i send it to GariGirlfriend? 
Man, Ferris nailed it!
Rubbish. It is obvious that she put HER way of communicating forth as the only right way of communicating. Any other way (not being a gossip) is not what “people” do.
In either case, then it behooves her to actually be honest about the matter rather than whining about undefined “communication”.
jellen92, so you say you’re very happy with the way your BF communicates - does HE bring up topics to talk about, or are you usually the one to initiate conversations? Or do you even notice this? Does it even matter?
This next question is for any female doper (not just jellen92) - If your man is very willing to talk about all sorts of stuff, but doesn’t really inititate conversations, is that bad? I mean, he’s open and willing to talk about all subjects, but he’s just probably not going to just suddenly walk in the room and say, “So, you know, I’ve been thinking about death and I’d really like to share my feelings on it.”
You know, it’s about 50/50. When something is bothering him he wants to talk about it HERE and NOW. He can’t eat or sleep until an issue is resolved. I find him to be unlike most men, however, as he is so passionate and loves to talk about our relationship. I’m the man… I’ll run and hide for a couple of days until I come to my senses and decide to talk.
Also - many times we’ll just get on a subject and the conversation starts flowing. I’d say, as a female, I may tend to start more of the conversations. But, he enjoys that and isn’t afraid to open up his mind and have a conversation about it.
Lenny & Carl - I think relationships differ so much in communication styles. They say a large part of a couple staying together is their similarities in sharing styles. I don’t think there is “good” nor “Bad” necessarily, but more along the lines of compromise. I must say, I’ve never felt as close to a man before, due to his willingness to open up. BUT - some women like men who are not (as they might say) “emotional beings”.
What Ferris said.
But it ain’t original.
Anyone know the author?
Take it whatever way you want, but don’t blame anybody else if you can’t find a woman or your relation fails.
I think that what happens is that a lot of women spend a substantial part of their lives talking about stuff that men don’t really bother about: minor things that have happened to them, the problems they come across every day, who they’re getting along with and who’s being nasty to them. The woman talks to her girlfriends about such topics: the girlfriends are probably selected because they all enjoy discussing similar things. But she also tries to talk to her boyfriend.
The boyfriend isn’t so interested in such discussions, and nor is he so skilled at such discussions (he’s neither interested nor able to pick over things in such detail). Therefore, the woman speaks about all her trivial issues, and the guy just sits there in silence and takes it, possibly feeling that his minor irritations aren’t worth talking about, possibly wanting to talk about something he likes, possibly wanting to go do something more enjoyable, and possibly just wanting to go pee.
The result is that the boyfriend gets little out of the conversation and comes to view conversation as a bore. The woman gets fed up because she’s doing all the talking and isn’t getting anything out of the conversation. Both are unhappy.
The solution is probably less communication, not more communication. Women should realise that conversation is a leisure activity, not the be-all and end-all of a relationship (men may go fishing or play sports to get over the day’s niggles, women are more likely to use conversation). But both sides should make the effort to realise the effect of their actions on their loved one.
I’m sorry to hijack this thread. But I wanted to post another joke along this vein. It’s kinda long, though so be warned.
…And then, one evening when they’re driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: “Do you realize that, as of tonight, we’ve been seeing each other for exactly six months?”
And then there is silence in the car.
To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: Geez, I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he’s been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I’m trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn’t want, or isn’t sure of.
And Roger is thinking: Gosh. Six months.
And Elaine is thinking: But, hey, I’m not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I’d have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward… I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?
And Roger is thinking: So, that means it was… let’s see… February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer’s, which means…let me check the odometer… Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.
And Elaine is thinking: He’s upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I’m reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed, even before I sensed it, that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that’s it. That’s why he’s so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He’s afraid of being rejected.
And Roger is thinking: And I’m going to have them look at the transmission again. I don’t care what those morons say, it’s still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It’s 87 degrees and this
thing is shifting like a garbage truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.
And Elaine is thinking: He’s angry. And I don’t blame him. I’d be angry, too.
I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can’t help the way I feel.
I’m just not sure.
And Roger is thinking: They’ll probably say it’s only a 90-day warranty…scum balls.
And Elaine is thinking: Maybe I’m just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I’m sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.
And Roger is thinking: Warranty? They want a warranty? I’ll give them a warranty. I’ll take their warranty and stick it right up their…
“Roger,” Elaine says aloud.
“What?” says Roger, startled.
“Please don’t torture yourself like this,” she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. "Maybe I should never have… Oh God, I feel so… (She breaks down, sobbing.)
“What?” says Roger.
“I’m such a fool,” Elaine sobs. “I mean, I know there’s no knight. I really know that. It’s silly. There’s no knight, and there’s no horse.”
“There’s no horse?” says Roger.
“You think I’m a fool, don’t you?” Elaine says.
“No!” says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer.
“It’s just that…it’s that I…I need some time,” Elaine says.
There is a 15-second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up
with one that he thinks might work. “Yes,” he says.
Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand. “Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?” she says.
“What way?” says Roger.
“That way about time,” says Elaine.
“Oh,” says Roger. “Yes.”
Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she speaks.
“Thank you, Roger,” she says.
“Thank you,” says Roger.
Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn.
When Roger gets back to his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that
something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it’s better if he doesn’t think about it.
The next day Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it, either.
Meanwhile, Roger, while playing racquetball one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine’s, will pause just before serving, frown, and say, “Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse?”
And that’s the difference between men and women.
That’s from Dave Barry’s Complete Guide to Guys, <b>wolverine</b>, dunno if they’re gonna let you get away with posting it.
Heh - glad folks liked ‘both sides of the story’. I’ve seen it on another message board and been sent it via email, so I figured that there’d be a good number of people here who’d already seen it.
But it just fits so right in the thread, don’t you think?
I’d also seen Wolverine’s story but can’t remember where now, so it was good to get a second viewing - cheers.
This is one of those things that drives me bonkers. I’m not a good “communicator” if you ask my wife. Ask my friends or coworkers and you’ll get a different response. I think PiscesPrincess
really got it right. Men and women communicate for different reasons and in different manners.
I truly believe that our communication styles, men and women, are partially pre-wired into us. Way back when Og was out hunting that Saber tooth tiger with his buddies they had to quickly layout strategies and tactics and had to communicate quickly while performing these duties. Mrs. Og was at home having to deal with all the little Ogs and the other mothers (remember it takes a village to raise an Og). She had to deal with a completely different set of issues in a completely different manner. Natural selection, those that did it best propogated those genes.
One place I always screw up with, my wife will make a statement, not ask question, just make a statement.
I’ll think, “Oh that makes a lot of sense”, and go about what I was doing. I will also file it away in the storage area for quick retrieval if I ever need it.
Mrs. Fallfast gets mad, “Oh no response, didn’t you hear what I said, you don’t care about me or what I’m thinking”.
Me, “I heard you, I didn’t know it needed a response”.
Her, “well if you cared you would respond”
And on and on it goes. I really do lover her. And I really do care what she thinks and her feelings. But, if you want my response to something ask me straight up. Don’t beat around the bush, be specific.
And why do women want to know what I’m feeling and my emotions. They are mine and they are private. If I put them out there I’m extremely vulnerable (like I’m being hunted by that Saber tooth tiger) and I don’t like that feeling. Been burnt a couple of times for me to put those feelings back out there. An example, wife and I are have a conversation, she complains that I don’t let her know my feelings. So I tell her one. Something she says or does hurts my feelings. She is kind of like Oh, I didn’t know that. A couple of weeks later she makes that statement again about me then follows it with “oh, I can’t say that because it hurts your feelings”, in a rather sarcastic tone. Last time I ever and will ever open up to her like I did.