Oh, I don’t know, eleonorigby, I think you’re being a bit hard on her here. I didn’t really get any of that from from what she said. Maastricht started out by stating that she was on good terms with John even though he was heartbroken at the collapse of the relationship. Obviously, she still cares about John’s feelings, and the conversation reflects that. John asked her if she was relieved that she told him, not if she was serious about marrying Arwin, so I think her answering “It depends” was justified. I think Maastricht handled it pretty well.
Personally, I’m amazed that people can be friends with their ex’s while dating someone else. I’m with Stonebrow on the scorched earth policy, not because I want to be cruel to my ex, but because it would just feel . . . weird. Really weird. I can’t imagine just going from a passionate relationship to tea and conversation without some heavy emotions, especially if you knew your ex was seeing someone else. This might be a result of the fact that I grew up in really small towns, where the closeness of everyone made this sort of thing difficult, if not impossible.
I trust my wife, and my wife trusts me, but if I came home with the news that I had spoken to an ex over coffee, Mrs. Fresh would suddenly have a lot of questions.
I agree that my tone was harsh, and I apologize for that. But I stick by my position.
Seems to me that John took the news with equanimity, until she added the rider of “that partly depends on how you react.”
she has no control over how anyone reacts to this news-she shouldn’t expect any.
his feelings are his, not under her control at all. Nor are his actions.
she is not recognizing the line drawn between them now(that was drawn when they broke it off)–John must take a distant second to Arwin now-and always.
telling him in such a way and adding that bit at the end just feeds drama–I suspect that was some of the intent.
5.IMO, again, OP needs to truly say goodbye to John (and should have before saying hello to Arwin): physically, emotionally, psychologically. Someone up thread mentioned co-dependency–that has some merit.
I wish them all the best of luck and hope this situation resolves.
But, again, there really isn’t a situation, unless OP is seen as the Lady Fair and these two guys as Knights jousting for her favors. 35 is too old for this stuff, IMO.
The dinner went well. Johns attitude amounted to, as Antonius Block said, trying to forget about Arwin’s importance in my life.
The responses in this thread have made me think if that is okay with me. Do I want him to feel happy for me? Show happiness (or even fake it)? Do I want him to meet and acknowledge Arwin?
I don’t think I do. But I’ll have to get back to you on that when I have given it some more thought.
Some posters have mentioned that my current SO should come first, period.
I think that’s more of a preference thing then an “objective” truth. Would you want your SO to stop seeing his or her parents if she was in a relationship with you? Would you begrudge him the time he spent with his kids? I don’t really see the difference. In many ways, John is more " family" to me then my real family.
Well, this is just a detail, but I think I was being at least as nice as he was in that regard. You see, in packing for me, he got to decide what was mine to take with me and what he wanted to keep.
You’re right that there isn’t really a situation anymore. This thread started out with a simple " how" question, and it was answered. The rest was, basically, a discussion about the evils, if any, of feeling responsible to an ex when you’re in a new relationship. But that discussion is probably best continued in its’ own thread.
About the Lady Fair stuff…you’re right, a bit of Damsel In Distress[sup]TM[/sup]did creep in my posts. However, I can assure you that no jousting is going on, and that I have every intent of keeping it that way. If anything, this thread has made me aware that I’m maybe even taking too much responsibility to nip any jousting in the bud.
John has no shortage of female attention, and he’s busy building his own love-life.
Antonius, thanks for your thoughtful and friendly post. I’m all for rites de passage that don’t hurt anyones feelings, so I’ve updated my profile as you suggested. It didn’t hurt a bit.
There’s a difference between your S.O. having a close relationship with his/her family and having a relationship with his/her ex, who still carries a torch.
Guinastasia, why? Even if my ex still carries a torch, what does it matter? The relationship is over, and no emotion anyone has is going to chance that.
Are you saying I can’t see him unless, and untill, he stops carrying that torch? I don’t see why. He’ll stop carrying it eventually, in the natural course of such emotions.
If your ex is holding a torch, it sure as hell matters to him that you’re with some other dude and won’t leave him alone. It’ll help him if you just cut off ties. It also matters to Alwin, who I’m sure doesn’t like it when you leave him to spend an evening with an ex who he hasn’t met, who pretends like he doesn’t exist, and who still wants to be with you. Its not fair to either guy.
I’m not sure it’s fair to John to keep him hanging around, carrying this torch for you. Sure, you’re OK with it, but you’re not the one getting hurt by it. This might be one of those ‘you have to be cruel to be kind’ cases where it’s better to give him a chance to move on. (I had a torch-carrier too, btw.)
Your spouse comes before all others, period. And the fact is that John is not your parent or child. The point is that John is not seeing your new relationship as he needs to in order to have a healthy friendship with you, not that family members deserve time too. (That’s a different issue, really–if John really were your relative, he would still need to come to terms with your new relationship. Mothers who never accept their DsIL find themselves out in the cold, if their sons are acting correctly. And John is an adult, not a child.)
Because until you cut the cord, John is never going to get over you. Yes, you want to be friends with him, but unfortunately, that’s not a good idea right now.
I agree that the spouse comes first, no matter what. I also agree that it’s unfair to let a guy keep holding a torch for you and leading him on, not allowing him to let go. I’m with you all on that.
But is that really what’s going on here? So far, I’m getting that she’s been on good terms with John, John–while not happy about breaking up–has gotten on with his life, and is forming “a new love life” (Does this include an actual relationship, or is he just searching now?), and that he reacted a bit ambiguously when she told him about the upcoming marriage. That doesn’t add up to “holding a torch” in my mind.
Sure, there was the reaction, but I imagine that’s normal. John might be feeling genuine pain and jealousy, but then again, he might just be feeling the passage of time. Long after I got over the separation from significant others, I still felt something when I heard they had gotten married. There was no pining for the ex’s, to be sure, but it was like “Wow, we’re all getting older, aren’t we?” I felt the same way when I heard about the divorces. It’s a product of age, I suppose. Suddenly, these little “time landmarks” are a lot more important than they used to be.
Still, I might be wrong. Once again, my understanding of the situation is hampered by my inability to identify with being close friends with an ex. I’ve heard about it happening, but I don’t think I could pull it off. I just don’t get the impression that John is being strung along with what I’ve read here.
Bingo. And I speak from long, bitter experience–my husband never did cleave unto me regarding his mother–and she is one factor in our marriage’s demise. Marriage demands absolute loyalty–and if that is done, it’s amazing how everything else falls into place. Because that loyalty is so dificult to muster–one must be absolutely sure that one is willing to give. If not, don’t get married.
IMO, if you truly care about John, you need to give him room and time–lots of it.
There is no reason you can’t be friends, long term–but not right now.
I cannot put all of this on John–I think you must be somehow encouraging his affections in some way (perhaps even subconsciously) in order for a need of yours to be met. The best way to find out is to cut the cord and go it alone. It will be better for you, Arwin and John.
Look at it this way–if John were an older sibling, sooner or later, you must tell him he no longer needs to look out for you. That you need to stand on your own two feet etc. You love him and all, but you’re a big girl now. It’s not enough to say that, you must DO it.
