How many did it take to blow up the OKC federal building?
Who voted in the tens of millions for an openly fascist game show host.
I’m talking about the people who are trying to get a civil war started in our country, and pointing out that even though they had fairly decent lives, they still went out and assaulted the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government.
No one, other than your strawman, is saying that a significant portion of the public will go out and commit terroristic acts.
It doesn’t require a significant portion of the population to start things off. Some assaults on state Capitols, some destruction of critical infrastructure, some school shootings and bombings, and quite quickly, a substantial portion of the populace no longer going to bed feeling safe in their homes with a full belly.
And that’s my point, it doesn’t require a significant portion of the public to take away those things from a significant portion of the public.
Never said they would start it, only that they would be forced into living in a country with one ongoing.
What are you saying they are full of shit? They aren’t saying, “We want a civil war” or “we look forward to being in a civil war.” They are saying, “We fear that a civil war is going to break out.” How do you call them full of shit for that fear?
That was an act of isolated terrorism, not a civil war.
Now, a whole lot of people doing that all over the country repeatedly and repeatedly, that may be a civil war. But I don’t see a whole lot of people doing that anytime soon. And if a bunch of whacks do it I don’t see a lot of John Q Publics joining in at this time. The majority of people have too much to lose at this time.
I don’t see it possible unless the military takes to revolting, and I understand that firearms are kept under lock and key when not being trained with. Of course, the military supports the Constitution, not a person.
Recently read a fiction book that seems strikingly prophetic when it was published - Orson Scott Card’s “Empire”, published in 2006, and it’s sequel, “Hidden Empire”. Rather eerie how he seemed to see all this developing, and how plausible some of the ideas he put forth are today.
I’m just not sure where the battle lines are. Plus, I’m not sure there’s really that much division. It’s mainly in online forums (here) and Twitter, Facebook, other places. When you talk to people face to face there’s generally more agreement, or at least less open aggression.
Plus, I think things are generally pretty good in the US. Not for everybody, but through, Clinton/Bush/Obama/Trump/Biden. . . things have been not too bad.
Things would have to get a lot worse for a Civil War. I do think the next couple of elections could spark some elevated unrest though and take us closer to Civil War.
You mean, like families headed by homosexuals being told their marriages are no longer legal? Their adopted kids being taken away? Or hetero couples having to buy black market birth control? Or millions of voters seeing their votes ignored? Stuff like that?
It could, but my guess is that most of the military, especially the officers, would follow whoever appears to factually be the real winner of the election. Let’s say 1/6/2021 had succeeded for Trump, and the insurrectionists killed enough Democratic members of congress to tip the counting of the electoral college vote to Trump. My guess is that come 1/20/2021 at noon, General Milley would have announced that despite what the rump Congress had declared, that the military would now recognize Biden as the rightful commander in chief.
My point is, and I didn’t come up with this on my own, is that individuals in the military must make a decision as to what actions they take to support the constitution.
For every comment here, there is an evil mirror message board where the inverse is believed. Why can’t those idiots see that the election was stolen? Obviously the way to defend the constitution is to remove those traitors from office.
Anybody who genuinely thinks the election was stolen would fight to put Trump in office.
I really do hope that there are many rational leaders in the military who can put aside their personal political beliefs and follow the evidence. I’m not sure that is a bet I want to take, though.
This has happened before where bands of regular people got together to use terror to make sure certain races stayed in their place.
But what if they just delayed the counting, so it wasn’t done on the mandated by the Constitution, and the election was then “lawfully” sent to the House for determination? Or if Pence said the disputed states couldn’t be included? Trump “wins.” What does the military do then?
This is what I’m saying. Isolated acts of terrorism, as horrific as they are, do not a civil war make.
One of my neighbors has blathered on for decades how they’ll get his guns bullets first and then when they pry it from his cold dead hands.
He was quick to melt down his bump stock when they were banned.
I see where you’re coming from, and I’m largely in agreement. This is the same thing I’ve said to my leftist friends who want to tear down the government and capitalism and start from scratch. As long as most of us have jobs, can eat, be entertained, and have some access to health care, you’re going to have a hard time mustering a popular uprising to smash the state and defeat capitalism. Good luck. But I do predict more terrorist activites.
I read the article and it is a bit alarming, altho it(unlike other articles on the same study) is more about gun violence.
However, I checked four articles about that study, but I did not find a single link to the actual study? Is there one I did not notice?
How did the study, for example- define “civil war” for example? Was it limited to a mass armed insurrection? Or did it include non-violent mass protests or more Jan 6 crap? Civil Terrorism?
The devil is in the details.
And then we would have civil war.
This is an important point. So far those who want to start a Civil War haven’t found a central cause to pull together their troops and draw battle lines. Jan 6th was close, but obviously not close enough, and that cause is over. And even most Trumpers didn’t endorse the Capitol attack. The trucker convoy tried, but they couldn’t find a theme & despite the financial & moral support they received, they didn’t attract very many bodies. Probably because the people who don’t have it good are not the same people fomenting revolution. Trumpers, in general, are financially comfortable & there’s a lot of distance between wanting Trump back as president & giving up your pension, home & annual beach vacation to get there. And those being, or about to be, persecuted – women, gays, minorities, etc – aren’t a cohesive group or likely to try violence to retrieve their rights.
Though there will be future attempts, bombings of liberal targets, state capitol attacks, etc, I don’t see a path from those incidents to nationwide civil war.
Pft. I don’t think January 6th lives up to the Whiskey Rebellion, never mind full-blown civil war.
No.
Major acts of Terrorism?
Yes.
Domestic Terrorism.
Perhaps on a 9/11 scale.
And Charlottesville, and Dylan Root, and the Olympics bombing, and January 6, and the Buffalo shooting? Isolated incidents all.
I’d argue that it’s becoming distinctly more democratic, which is why the framers were trying to avoid democracy. When you empower the majority and the majority is organized sufficiently to see the potential for success over others, they’ll start to bear down on winning. Whereas, when you have legislators going off, hiding in a room, and doing things without any apparent concern for what others think, the majority feels powerless, and stays out of politics. Presuming that those legislators were reasonable and forward thinking people, you get fairly good government.
It’s the political equivalent of Jevon’s Paradox. Granting people more power just increases the desire for more power, it doesn’t satisfy it. Or, the more well-known rule of life, “absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
It’s similar to winning the lottery. Nearly everyone, when they win, will destroy themselves with the unreleased freedom. People who earned similar amounts of money, through their skill with finance, have no similar issues. Some people are able to bear power in a somewhat diligent and reasonable manner. You need to recruit and empower those, not just randomly throw it on anyone.