Stupid bus… too much time to think. I’d imagine this has been discussed but couldnt bring up anything searching…
Started thinking about a ‘paradise earth’ as many religions claim will be created. Than started thinking about what that would consist of… is it even possible? How could you have happiness without there being sadness? If nobody had challenges, everyone had what they wanted, would emotions such as desire exist?
We live in such a fast paced environment where the challenges of life seem to fulfill our lives…without any challenges what would you do? We always want more…if you truly had everything…had no wants or dreams would life be fulfilling?
What would “paradise earth” consist of? Could we be happy there?
You are on the wrong board for this, my friend. You will get at least 20 people decrying the very idea, and 10 others who vaguely post something they don’t understand. And I’m not going to explain it because the last time I did, the self-righeously ignorant regressed about a decade in maturity trying to deconstruct it.
As I have always envisioned it, and as I understand to be supported by most Christian doctrine, Paradise is the state where people are united with God. Once united with God, a person experiences no inner conflict and no exterior challenges. That is to say, the person knows exactly what the best thing to do is in any situation, and does it without hesitation or desire to shun responsibility.
While no on in this world lives such an existence permanently, some people have experienced moments of it, thus proving that it is possible. Happiness is a certain state of being. It does not require the existence of sadness side-by-side. joy can exist in pure form, without the need for something to define it against.
Why would you think that paradise would mean no challenges? For me (speaking as an engineer/programmer/gamer/shadetree mechanic/shooter/sports fan) that’d be no fun at all. No major consequences for failing, that I’d go for, but not no challenges.
I don’t recall God ever saying there’d be no sports, games etc. in heaven.
The Island by Aldous Huxley gives the best description of paradise on earth that I have come across.
The secret to success was a recognition of diversity (of desires, abilities, competence). The society was structured to encourage everyone to succeed according to their definition of success.
Lots of sex and drugs helped.
It ends badly when they are invaded by the jealous non-paradise next door
From the way believers talk about it, it consists of destroying your human personality and turning you into a God-adoration machine. And we’d be happy because we’d have no choice; like so many cattle pumped full of opiates.
I think the OP is referring to an external paradise, not an internal paradise. How would we get along with one another, what would we eat, what would we do etc. Would there be marriage, would there be children, would we continue to grow as a society or stagnate?
Its difficult for me to imagine how a perfectly happy existence which included no challenges. But I don’t think that the presence of challenges implies the presence (or even the possibility) of unhappiness. So like one other poster above, I disagree with one of the assumptions of the OP: Paradise would not lack challenge, IMO.
My take on it is that it is a eternal lifelong journey where increadable things beyond belief keep happening, things that you just get down on your knees and thank God for showing you those things. The paths you take may seem impossible, but you know that God will provide and has already made a way.
Going further, a really big WAG, may be every planet has unique and wonderful life and environment, a universe of worlds to explore without all the nasty effects of space travel.
Challenge in sports, for example, opens the door to jealousy, cheating and the inevitable loser. Unless, as previous posters have suggested, we as humans are altered to be perfect most challenge would create these issues and some degree of unhappiness. I don’t believe we are capable of playing sports strictly for fun. Tasks such as gardening or culinary arts could provide challenge in a less competitive manner so I suppose excluding challenge entirely is unfair.
Is it possible to create an environment where we are left the beings we currently are but remain content and happy due to what is provided…if so this is how I envisioned paradise. What would need to be provided? What would we do? No sickness, hunger or pain but would we miss the unpredictable and exciting world in which we currently live that inevitably brings with it unhappiness.
Well, given that the older you get, the more you just want to relax and be left the heck alone…maybe eternal paradise is just like a nice nursing home with good cable, crosswords, and nice hiking paths without the pain and suffering of old age ?
Anne : if Heaven is eternal happiness, wouldn’t that get boring?
Me : No, because if you get bored, you’re less happy.
Anne : But still, you’d get bored with being so happy all the time.
Me : No, you’d be happy. By definition.
Anne : But I’d be bored being happy all the time.
And so forth and so on.
Being older now, and more sophisticated, I can break the loop better.
Whatever you need in order to be happy… change, stimulation, challenge, call it what you like… would be provided in a “perfect happiness” kind of paradise. Otherwise, it fails its basic definition and that is not logically possible.
Now, whether such a place or state of being is possible or not is an entirely different matter. Of course, if you put an omnipotent, all-loving, all-knowing God into the equation, all things are, by definition, possible. Omnipotence is monipotence. Period.
Without a God, however, paradise remains an ideal, not a goal. It’s the direction to work towards, not a destination to be reached, else all effort towards it is in vain.
You may not believe it but it happens every day. There are plenty of sports where the only goal is to improve one’s own ability. Heck, I used to do combat rifle courses (like IPSC but with carbines) where we didn’t keep score. Even when sports and games are competitive, the excitement and suspense are part of the fun. It wouldn’t be very exciting if there was no chance of losing.
Most people want to have something to do other than sit around and get high and watch TV all day, which seems to be what you consider paradise. I like drugs and movies as much as anybody but I’d get bored with that pretty soon. In fact, when my friends come over intending just to hang out and get buzzed we generally end up playing video games.
I always think of the Humanoids ( robots ) in the old scifi story With Folded Hands, which are programmed to make all humans safe and happy. And if they can’t do it any other way, they’d perform a little brain operation that absolutely guarantees you’ll be happy. A vegetable, but happy.
This. I think that it is obvious when dealing with our own mortal limitations that eternal happiness would be illogical. But if you are a religious person who believes that God will elevate (the people who go to heaven) to another plane of existence, then such a state would exist in a manner that is incomprehensible to our current minds.
Of course, if you don’t believe, then you think such things are hogwash. The OP can be reduced to that easily answered question: Is there a God?
I guess I’m talking about a paradise earth; not going to heaven. Maybe as Jehovah Witness’s depict post armageddon where 144000 go to heaven and everyone else enjoys a new paradise earth. Maybe something along the lines of the Garden of Eden, although I suppose human nature prevailed there as well.
