If I am stupid enough to assault a law enforcement officer with an object that could be used as a deadly weapon I deserve exactly what I get, yes. However, I don’t intend to do so because I have enough sense to know that you don’t do stuff like that unless you are prepared to face the consequences of your actions.
Again, what’s your point?
Under most if not all systems of law in the U.S., there are tiers of offense. Misdemeanors and felonies are crimes; petty offenses and traffic infractions are chargeable as criminal offenses but are specifically excluded from the term crime in the legal sense.
It’ll probably get the parking ticket dropped just as well as it got the illegal immigrant into the country. If you’re breaking the law, you might consider not throwing any rocks.
Did the Mexican press have anything to say as to why the guy was throwing rocks at the border guard?
Just trying to clarify under what circumstances some people around here consider justification for use of deadly force.
Now, so if you , in a moment of weakness, freaked out and tossed a rock at the meter maid, then turned and ran, the cop would be justified in shooting you in the back? I wonder if that argument would fly in PA.? You think maybe Ms Robyn would go after the cop for using excessive force? Any community outrage?
They probably asked him why but he was dead.
I already answered this question once, aparently not to your satisfaction. Now you’re asking Doors. Are you playing bait the gringo?
Yeah I heard your personal opinion, now how about answering the parts about how it would be viewed by the victim’s relatives and whether there would be any public outrage and demands for an investigation.
If you are representative, there is plenty of outrage, and nobody here is saying that there should not be an investigation. This all started because you declared that the shooting was racially notivated.
You’re tilting at windmills, and I don’t understand why. I haven’t from the very beginning.
You know, it’s really hard to take you seriously when you’re bitching about racism and using racist terms.
Doors dude, try again. I stated that the reaction of some of the posters here was racist. Please point out where I said the shooting itself was racially motivated.
As someone who does federal law enforcement in the US, let me answer that for you. For the most part, there are 3 elements to the ‘deadly force triangle’: weapon, opportunity and actions (or intent).
The weapon must be capable of causing serious bodily injury, maiming or death to the officer or others. The subject must have unrestricted access to the weapon and be within the weapons effective range. The weapon can be a gun, a knife, or even a rock. It may even be the size and numbers difference between the officer and subjects.
The opportunity must exist for a subject to use a weapon against someone. A subject with a knife who is 300 feet away does not meet this element, for example.
The subject must display the actions, or intent to cause serious bodily injury, maiming or death of the officer or others. Having a knife in your hand, down at your side, by itself does not meet this element. Start wielding the knife in a menacing manner and/or approaching an officer with the knife and this element will be met.
That’s really it in a nutshell. Now, I know nothing of this case outside of what I’ve read in this thread, however it’s quite clear from what has been posted that this may very well have been a justified deadly force situation. Maybe it wasn’t - I don’t know, I wasn’t there. The BP will investigate it. Bottom line, however, is based on the info in this thread (and probably what’s in the papers), there’s no way you, or I, can determine that this shooting was justified or not justified.
But to recap the policy - ‘weapon, opportunity and actions’, all three elements appear to exist to some extent in this case.
Well, I’m going to assume the victim’s relatives are opposed to him being shot, I don’t really care what type of public outrage erupts, and I think an investigation is a good idea. Has anyone said that there shouldn’t be an investigation? I don’t recall anyone saying that here. In fact, there is just one person in this thread who seems to have his mind firmly made up on the matter before all the facts are in, guess who that is?
Yeah, the following qoute was definitely made by someone still pondering the situation.
That was the 800-pound gorilla. You came in here ready to go with that one and you threw it out there, as if race was the real issue. The real issue is now and was then that we have a right to secure our borders against people that attempt to come here illegally. You know as well as I do that if the flow of migration were going the other way you’d be screaming at your government to do something. Why, then, is it racism when we do it? It’s not. That is an argument with no basis in reality.
Racism has no effect on US immigration policy? That is absurd. Read your history.
Where did he say that?
I gotta agree with **CBEscapee **on this. He never said the alleged shooting was racially motived. He used the racism card against posters here, and Americans in general, but not against the Border Patrol Agent.
Of course it was. I AM perfectly happy with a BP officer shooting an alien who assualts him with a rock. That is what has been reported here. If it is in fact true is something the investigation will determine, using the paramaters so thoughtfully provided by Scruloose above. IF he assaulted the BP officer with a rock, in a situation that complies with the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force, he deserved to get shot. Is that clear enough for you?
Eh? Illegal, legal if the US wants you out, it can kick you out. All non-citizens are guests of our nation and have no claim to be here. Just like any other nation. Well, maybe not France, they have that whole uber humanitarian thing going.
The funny thing is that for most of us, it’s a nationalist issue, not racial. It’s about national issues regarding the WHOLE problem of illegal immigration (security, wages, taxes, social security, etc.), not just Mexican illegal immigration. That’s why using the race card is the most ignorant statement to make. I want to see each migrant use LEGAL means to get into the country. I’m pretty sure most everyone here is stating that. You CB, on the other hand, cling to this notion that all of us gringos are trying to keep “La Raza Blanca” pure, which is so insulting and ignorant.
BTW: CB, did I mention that you are ignorant? :wally