Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix (Major Spoilers!!!)

Roger Ebert has promulgated what he calls the “First Law of Funny Names”, which states that funny names aren’t funny, except when used by W.C. Fields or P.G. Wodehouse.

I think we can add J.K. Rowling to the law. She has an amazing talent for creating hillarious names, each of which is perfectly appropriate to the character:

Alastor Moody
Severous Snape
Dolores Umbridge
Nymphadora Tonks
Mundungus Fletcher
Arabella Figg
Angus Filtch
Remus Lupin (My daughter asks: “Is there a Romulus Lupin?”)

and my personal favorites:

Lucius, Narcissa, and Draco Malfoy

Bloody marvelous!

WRT Thestrals: I don’t have a copy of GoF handy, but I seem to recall that the students were lined up for the carriages at the end. Shouldn’t Harry have been able to see them then?

IIRC, it’s Argus Filch, which is even more appropriate (Argus being the hundred-eyed giant of mythology who sees everything).

And now I really want to know all about Romulus Lupin!

I think we’ll see a new DatDA teacher every year, and Snape will be the last.

Any speculation on how this series is gonna end?

I really doubt there’ll be some huge showdown. Rowling never sets up the climaxes that way. In SS, Harry clings to Quirrel’s arm. In CoS, Harry thrusts a basilisk fang into a book. In PoA, he doesn’t deal with Voldemort directly at all. In GoF, he hovers in the air in a bubble with Voldemort. In this most recent book, I think the real climax is when Voldemort possesses Harry and tries to get Dumbedore to kill him, which would require sacrificing Harry in the process. (And that’s why I think Dumbledore looked scared.)

I think the final ‘showdown’ will revolve around ancient magic; it was Voldemort’s first downfall and it may very well be his final one. Maybe Harry will cast a “forgiveness” spell at him instead of an “unforgiveable” curse. I think Voldemort gets his strength and power from inciting fear (people don’t even want to say his NAME) and being completely merciless. So maybe the key to destroying him is to forgive him. Not an easy task for Harry, I would think. But it could work: it’s ancient, simple, and completely beyond Voldemort’s comprehension.

I can just see it now: Harry points his wand menacingly at Voldemort, calls upon magic from before the Dawn of Time and yells, “I FORGIVE YOU!” and Voldemort melts into a puddle, screaming “I’m melting! Melting!”

Oops, I believe I’m confusing series. Hehe.

Zoomphy…poof

P.S. Luna Lupin? Cute name, but the age difference isn’t. :dubious:

there seems to be limited exchanges between wizard and muggle worlds. hermione’s parents go to diagon alley with herm. , they exchange muggle money in to wizard money (begin. b.2), mr weasley want desp. to “interview” them. petunia said that her parents were very proud of lily being a witch. so i figure if your child turns out to have powers you get to have a limited knowledge of wizard ways.

I just looked at GoF and yup, sure enough, Ron, Hermione and Harry were waiting for the horseless carriages to take them to the train station at the end of the book. Rowling sort of changes the scene to the train ride itself as the carriages pull up, so Harry’s response isn’t recorded.

Hagrid doesn’t mention HOW LONG after seeing death do wizards and witches first notice thestrals; possibly he was too flustered by Umbridge’s visit when he introduced the topic to mention it. It seems kind of odd that Harry would only notice the thestrals months later at the start of OoTP and not in the days freshly following Cedric’s murder in GoF, but maybe that’s how long it takes to happen.

Darn good catch, OttoDaFe.

“I don’t care if my tea leaves read, 'die, Ron, die”, I’m binning them."

–Patch

I’m not finished reading it yet, but I just have to share a moment that quite caught me. It’s when Fudge and his boys are in Dumbledore’s office, just after the DA has been discovered, and Dumbledore has just taken all the heat for it. The moment when Dumbledore points out that they’re all labouring under the misapprehension that he’s going to come along quietly when in fact he’s not going to come along at all just broke me up.

I had fallen into the same habit of thought as the characters, not considering that Dumbledore would be rather difficult to arrest.

It was a near perfect “Now I’ve got you right where you want me” kind of moment.

Long thread. Not surprising really. I’ve read it all and a lot of good things have been said, so I don’t really know if I can add anything, but I’ll try.

Rowling writes her books in a very formulaic way. Maybe because she thinks this is needed for children’s YA books. But it gets a bit annoying. Book starts with Potter at the Dursley’s. They are mean. He goes off to Hogwarts, everyone misunderstands him, nobody believes him. Adults are stupid and Harry ends up being right. End note in form of a coda, where it seems that while Harry might have done the right thing, it was all for the wrong reasons, or whatever.

I understand that we’re supposed to feel for Harry, feel his frustration, but about a third of the way into this book, I was ready to give up. I was wondering if Rowling was setting out to make him as unsympathetic as possible. Yes, she does a good job of protraying teen angst. And yes, being that age means you tyhink no adult understands you. But Harry’s stubborness, even to confide in his closest friends, is just too much. I like the books. I like them very much. But Rowling has been using this as a way to move the plot forward for five books now. And it’s just getting to be too much.
Harry’s left with one adult friend, Sirius, who really isn’t grown up. Just a teenager who’s gotten older. And for all his love for Snuffles, he can’t confide in him? I would think that would be easy, as Sirius is more of an older brother, than a substitute father.

I also think that Rowling is too much in love with her own plot devices. The Fairy of Misdirection was on a rampage throughout the book. That she keeps the main characters in the dark about some things, some of the time. But it’s frustrating that she does the same to the readers. Maybe that’s what’s making this to a proverbial ‘page turner’, but Rowling ends up tieing knots on plotlines and making plotholes big enough to dump all of Hogwarths in. It makes for an annoying read at times, when I’m thinking: “Oh, I know this is misleading for the sake of it. Just get on with it so we can get to what’s essential.”

Fred and George are carbon copies of Heinlein’s Castor and Pollux Stone. Down to the red hair, being twins, good at business and being ingenious inventors. Rowling’s invented so many other great characters. I don’t see why she had to steal so obviously.

Some things I couldn’t make sense of:

  • Why, exactly, did Umbridge send the dementors on Harry?
  • Was Big D cured? He was with his parents to pick up Hafrry at the end of the book.
  • Trelawney doesn’t have any talent whatsoever. How come she came up with the prophecy in the first place?

Since the books are written in 3rd person narrative, I think they would benefit from changing the POV once in a while. We either get to peek inside Harry’s head, or are told a straight forward, unpersonal account of events. The books would gain depth if we got to peek inside Hermione’s and Ron’s head at times. See Harry from another perspective, which is not adult (this being a children’s/YA book). Harry’s acting like a jerk at times. This is understandable, but annoying (as I stated above). The impact of the jerkish behaviour might be smaller if we could feel Hermione’s reaction to it, and not just hear her telling him off.

The whole section at Black’s house in the beginning - way too long.

I’m coming off as hating it, ain’t I? I’m not. I loved the book. The more the reason to be critical! :stuck_out_tongue:

  • The scenes with Cho were great. Awkward teen love. Perfect.
  • A look inside Snapes head. Perfect.
  • Peeves floating after Umbridge, in his slack time - no less, blowing raspberries - priceless.
  • Less quidditch. Welcome.
  • Umbridge was a great villain.
  • Detention was very creepy.

The characters in the book, and we, the readers, see Dumbledore as a benign grandfather type. Half moon glasses, white beard ASF. I had a feeling all throughout the book which didn’t vanish when Dumbledore told Harry about the prophecy. That might be part of the truth, but not the whole truth. I think Dumbledore played Harry, so that he would be inside the MoM that night. He wanted Voldy to show himself, in a place where it couldn’t be dismissed, with many witnesses. Black dying was collateral damage. Dumbledore might have affection for Harry, but ultimately, his biggest concern is stopping Voldy. If you’re such a high ranking wizard and headmaster of Hogwarts, you have to be pragmatic and realize that you sometimes need to resort to realpolitik.

Predictions for upcoming books:
Potter, will train even harder for his future showdown with Voldy (which we know is in two years, but from Harry’s POV could be next week). This will lead him to look into darker spells. And without him realizing it, he will be very close to the dark side. Voldy will surely tempt him.
Potter will never be able to live a normal life, even after defeating Voldy at the end of book seven. Therefore, either he dies (unlikely) or leaves this part of the world for a longish time, taking a couple of Wanderjahr.
Ron and Hermy will get together, but break up again in a friendly way, maintaining friendship. Netiher will get togehter with any major character we know of at this point.
Potter will make peace with Snape, but they’ll never be friendly.
Dumbledore will die.
Umbridge, in her disgust, will join Voldy.

As an aside: I think age of consent is 16 in England, no? Will we get books where Harry makes his sexual debut (off screen, obviously)? If so, how would that be handled for the US market?

I thought this exact thought when I read it. GMTA.

**HIJACK ALERT: **

My new favorite acronym: SHTF. Heeee. I am so easily amused.

If I owned a company, I would name it that. What fun.
[/hA}

But in this book, she stands the formula on its head – granted, she starts on Privit Drive, with the mean Dursley’s. But there really was no “misunderstanding” of Harry this time. Harry did not have crucial information which he hid from Dumbledore. The adults, other than Fudge et al., were not stupid. Harry ended up being wrong. He did the wrong thing, for the right reasons (sort of), and because of his mistake, Sirius was “killed”. (I want to see a body before I’m convinced he’s really dead. I think he’s only mostly dead.)

On the Cruciatus Curse:

The reason why Harry “got away with it” was because there was nothing to get away with – the curse didn’t work. It produced some minor effect, but since it barely phased Bellatix it was certainly not a real Cruciatus Curse. At worst Harry is guilty of trying to use an Unforgiveable Curse. Considering that according to Bellatrix the reason it didn’t work was because he didn’t want it badly enough, I don’t think Harry can even be blamed with true intent to use an Unforgiveable Curse.

-Umbridge was trying to get Harry to use the Patronus so he would be kicked out of Hogwarts and discredited. He was the only one to see Voldemort return. With Harry discredited see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

-It depends on how you look at it. The paralyzing fear probably wore off (he more than likely would eat chocolate at some point during the 9 months); however, the memories probably remain. Will Dudley be different because of the memories the dementors brought? What did he see? Hopefully we’ll see in the next two books.

-She doesn’t have any ability when she tries. Sometimes her true abilities emerge, but she can’t remember them afterwards (think Psyduck from the cartoon version of Pokemon. Useless when it tries, but sometimes awesome.).

Its’ about time Harry learned the block spell. She teased us with it in Book 2, but it wasn’t mentioned again until now. Hopefully Harry will learn to control and use his wandless spells. Could this be the “ancient magic” Dumbledore refered to?

I’m figuring that Dumbledore keeps Trelawney around to protect her from Voldemort.

With the orb smashed, I expect that Voldy will try to learn the prophecy from Trelawney herself. Perhaps he’ll lure her away from Hogwarts somehow, and then kidnap her. Maybe he can use a memory charm to make her remember it. Maybe not. Either way, Trelawney is doomed.

If Voldemort learns what the prophecy says, then he’ll focus all of his efforts toward killing Harry. Harry’s life will be a living hell.

I still think that Dumbledore will die. Probably at the end of book 6.

I have a suspicion about Firenze. For some reason, he will re-enter the Forbidden Forest (probably to save Harry and company) and the other centaurs will kill him. If, as I expect, Trelawney also dies, then that will be end of Divination at Hogwarts.

How did Umbridge know Harry could cast a Patronus? I figured she just wanted him dead.

I suppose we are both right, look!ninjas. I assume Crouch told others in the Ministry about Harry and Hermione’s escape from the dementors and that info worked its way to Umbridge. Umbridge later hatched a plan whereby Harry would either wind up dead or in trouble for underage use of magic.

I finished reading the book a few minutes ago. Why did it take me so long? Well…

I take some umbrage at there being seperate editions for Americans – as if we would not understand English. So I ordered the book from amazon.uk instead of getting it locally. It only arrived the other day, as they didn’t send it out until the official release date.

I did wonder how they “translated” the bit about “keeping our peckers up”.

The only part I was hazy about was Trelawney’s prophesy to Ubmridge. It’s referred to at the end (where her image recides the prophecy), but I didn’t remember what she had said to Umbridge. I scanned back, but didn’t find it.

This has always bugged me. Snape and Sirius fought, but they acted as allies. Snape may be loathsome to Harry, but Harry should be intelligent enough to accept him as an ally. Snape may hold a grudge against Harry, but surely his is intelligent enough to realize that he is behaving poorly? Dumbledore trusts him. Doncha think dear old Albus might take Snape aside and say, “Severus, you’re being a prick. So you weren’t popular as a student. You’re an adult now. Start acting like one.”

And that’s page one of this thread…

One thing that nobody’s commented on yet was the holodec–, err, I mean Room of Requirement. I thought that was pretty cool.

Yes, the formula is upside down, but it’s still the same formula. Only change is that not HP (unwittingly) strives to be misunderstood, by not telling his friends what’s going on. Being a sullen hormon bomb teenager might mean not trusting adults. However, by now, he should have learned to trust his friends. Even Holden-esque teenagers do that.

So Umbridge wanted to shut up HP. And in the quote provided by Wolfian, this seems to be a general attitude at the MoM. This too doesn’t make sense, other than as a plot device. If the MoM really thinks that Voldy isn’t back, then having HP shooting off his mouth about it is no concern of theirs. From their POV he’s delusional and will end up being hoisted by his own petard.
And if they do think Voldy’s back, then the whole book falls apart, seeing that the Big Bad this time was Mindless Civil Servants™.
So really, the only logical explanation would be Umbridge working for Voldy. That would be a very good explanation, IMO, but Rowling doesn’t offer that straight out in the book. It can be inferred, but this is a book for younger readers, who’re not heavily into subtlety. And then again, neither is Rowling.

But who am I to say anything. Rowling obviously is doing a lot of things right and judging by the reactions here, most complaints are nitpicks, and I bet everyone who’s posted in this thread is eagerly awaiting the sixth book and will buy it the day it’s released.