I actually thought Harry was a more sympathetic character in this book. He seemed more realistic. Yes, I was irritated at him when he was too stubborn to confide in his friends, but I think that is exactly how we were supposed to feel about it. I don’t think we were supposed to just “feel his frustration” and give him a pass on everything. That’s the point. I remember a few times when Ginny had a quick response for Harry keeping things to himself, and it was pretty clear she was right, and Harry was being unreasonable, even taking his frustration into account.
But at the same time, Harry was right. He was the center of Voldemort’s plan. He should have been told what was going on. His frustration was justified. Just imagine being at the center of the plan of the most evil and dangerous wizard of all time, who killed your parents and tried to kill you, with nobody believing you, and nobody telling you anything. Although he took out his anger on his friends occasionally, Harry was really mad at Dumbledore. He obviously expected Dumbledore to fill him in on everything when he got back to school, and he was in disbelief that Dumbledore wouldn’t even look at him.
If it had turned out that it was all just “teen angst”, then I would agree that it was too much. If it had turned out that once again Dumbledore had everything under control the whole time but Harry was too untrusting, then I would agree. But it wasn’t just “teen angst.” Harry was dealing with real frustrations. Justified frustrations. Although, I do hope he isn’t so frustrating in the next book! I think it would be better if he learned his lesson in this one, and from now on is more willing to confide in his friends. I also don’t particularly want to see “dark side” Harry. This is my favorite book in the series though.
Continuing to work my way through the thread, building the post as I read…
Re: “Remember my last, Petunia”.
I’m not British except by ancestry, but I’ve heard this construction used by Americans. For example, if someone gives an order and then rescinds it immediately he may say, “Belay my last.”
You know how some bubble gum wrappers have cartoons or jokes on them? I was thinking it would be interesting if Neville’s mom was trying to communicate with him through the wrappers. You know, choosing specific wrappers to give him that imparts some message.
Except that the prophesy implies that either Voldemort or Harry will live. If Harry dies, then Voldemort will have won. I don’t think that readers will enjoy reading seven books only to find out that Voldemort wins to create a hell on Earth. (Of course both could die, the way Arthur Conan Doyle attempted to kill off Sherlock Holmes at the same time he kills off Moriarty.)
Yeah, I would have used it as well. Extreme conditions call for extreme measures.
I expected Neville to blast her into bits at the last minute. I was a little surprised that she escaped.
I was thinking along similar lines, but…
He did manage to find the time to teach a few students, but he’d no time to teach full-time and be a student. Maybe he could do it as a “club”. About the only way he could actually become a teacher is after he’s finished his education at the end of the series; and since Voldemort will be gone by then, the demand for a DatDA might be lessened a bit.
I thought it was established in book 1 that she is a squib, and that’s why she was so jealous of her sister?
Actually, it reminded me of the laws that are being passed in this country.
I thought it was made clear in the first book that Snape coveted the position. Interesting idea about it being “jinxed”, but it seems to be more of a strategic decision to keep him out of it.
And now to read page three. (I know these are long posts and that some topics might already be covered; but I really wanted to read the “authentic” edition.)
Ouf! I finished the book this morning. I was desperate to get it over and done with before I was properly spoiled. As it happened I had suspicions it would be Sirius all along and I’m very glad it was him. In a sense his only real interesting connection is with Harry (Snape’s nastiness manages to subsist off his James memories) and it’s more fun from the reader’s point of view to have Harry extra-angsty and Lupin the last of the Marauders. I love the idea of them in Snape’s memory, all arrogant and with such promise, having come to this: James and Sirius dead, Peter a traitor, and Lupin a bedraggled unemployed loser.
(I also find Lupin a lot sexier than Sirius, which helps.)
I also loved super-evil Harry. Chamber of Secrets is one of my favourites, while I believe it’s most people’s least favourite, but I love it when the Voldy side of Harry comes out. It makes the whole hero thing a lot more ambiguous. It was fun when he was bullying Dudders and being so nasty to Ron and Hermy. And it’s great how Rowling plays it; you kind of understand what he’s feeling, but it’s also a little scary, but also a bit laughable – you can see how much in thrall he is of his feelings.
Anyway, generic good bits:
Loved the Harry-Cho interaction, both of them acting completely as teenagers would, with the added problem of the ghost of Cedric in their midst, which gave the whole thing a lovely tragic tinge. I was upset when it didn’t happen, but if it paves the way to Harry/Ginny or even Harry/Luna – eh.
Umbridge reminds me of a mixture of David Brent (from The Office) and that woman with the pens in League of Gentlemen. My she’s evil. I loved the lines detention, and how she spent time deciding where to point her Cruciatus curse at Harry.
Dumbledore caring too much for Harry! Sob! I’m glad Dumbledore is 3-dimensional at last. His continued implacable good humour was wearing thin.
James Potter – loved him being knocked down from his pedestal. His new personality also gives him the added bonus of being almost sexy.
Practically ever thing else – loved the department of mysteries, loved Mrs Weasley’s boggart vision, loved Grimmauld Place (wonder what Harry’s going to do with it?)
Iffy bits:
Tonks was boring. I felt all at sea with the new characters at the beginning, none of whole seemed exactly thrilling. I was pleased when Harry was back at Hogwarts and everything was as it should be.
Harry was a MITE TOO ANGRY, wasn’t he! And although she does it well, Rowling should tone down the hyperbole slightly. It’s always the worst pain ever, the worst day, feeling the most miserable. How on earth is Harry going to feel in the next two books?!
If I have to wait another three months to know everything this book didn’t reveal – never mind Harry’s OWL results, what about his parents? What did they do? What exactly is Snape up to? Will Ron and Hermy ever get together? Who are his grandparents? Is he related to Voldy or not? Gah, it’s too much, it really is.
Lily’s and Petunia’s parents were both muggles. So Petunia is either a muggle herself, or she is a witch, maybe too talentless to go to Hogwarts, or she just didn’t want to go. To be a squib you must have magical parents.
I’d like to see that as well. Maybe it’s the kind of person I am; if there is a problem, I like to confront it. If I go to a person and attempt to work things out, and that person rebuffs my attempt, then I can say that I’ve made an honest effort to mend fences. At that point I just have to say to myself, “Well, this person has a visceral dislike for me. But that’s his problem; not mine,” and go on with my life. But Rowling has established that neither Snape nor Harry will make such a move. I think there will be some sort of a resolution at the end, though.
In the beginning, I had the feeling that Rowling was building up some sexual tension between Tonks and Harry. Which would be kinda icky, even though she isn’t that old. I’d put her in her early 20’s.
I don’t have illustrations either… :feels cheated:
Perhaps Dumbledore considers it bad public relations to have an ex Death Eater as the DADA teacher. He knows that Snape’s reformed, but very few other people do, and even less believe it.
I agree. I think that the Unforgivable Curses are supposed to represent the same basic morality in the wizarding world that we have in the Muggle world. They parallel our moral imperatives against rape and unlawful confinement (Imperius, which is a violation of free will), murder (Avada Kedavra, duh), and torture (Cruciatus).
Harry wasn’t trying to torture Bellatrix for the fun of it, or to bend her to his will, he was trying to defend himself. The Unforgivable curses are such because they are performed out of pure maliciousness, and as such are unjustifiable. With Harry, he wasn’t trying to just hurt her for personal gain (well, he was, but only if “personal gain” means preserving life and limb).
mkl12, You’re right, “a witch in the family” implies that Lily was the only one. But what I don’t get is that if Muggles don’t know that wizards are a “normal” part of their world (which is the entire reason for the existence of the Ministry Of Magic), why were Lily’s parents so accepting? Should we just assume they were very liberal? I would like to get some insight into how the Hogwarts letter is justified to people like Hermione’s parents, for example. Are they told the whole truth upfront? Or eased into it?
In addition to the whole MoM thing reminding me of Bush, Cheney and Rump-smelled, the decrees reminded me of the frequent decrees in Orwell’s Animal Farm.
That’s also a fair analogy; and given that Rowling is British, it makes sense.
Most civilised countries don’t have capital punishment. I thought of the Arch as being an artifact to be studied, not an instrument of justice.
When Harry decided to use Umbridge’s fireplace, I was wwondering why he didn’t use the gift instead. When Umbridge mentioned that her own flue was not monitored, I thought that that was a trap.
Heh. So was I. There were some girls who liked me, but I was too thick to understand. Hey, I had my motorcycle. I spent too much time boucing around the desert, and not enough thinking “Hey… She likes me!” :smack:
Re: Snogging. I kept thinking of Vyvyan worrying about if he was actually a virgin. “I hope snogging with SPG counts.”
Aha! I was thinking the same thing! (I’m posting as I read, since it took a week to receive the book.)
Swans are considered graceful. I think the swan fits Cho. Being a Quidditch player, she has pretty good control over her body; and she seems to be very pretty.
If the teeth had to do with Hermione’s patronus, in that case it should have been a beaver. I thought it was interesting that hers was an otter. I always think of otters as being playful – the opposite of Hermione, who is always so serious. I think it shows that deep down, Hermione longs to… erm, “let her hair down”.
Just had a thought on the whole Cruciatus thing…
Considering he is only a fifth year and has had a total of one competant DADA teacher, he doesn’t actually know many useful spells. Cruciatus is one of the few offensive spells he has actually been exposed to, and therefore is one of the few ones he could try to defend himself with.
What if Lily & Petunia’s parents were both Squibs, or perhaps one was a Squib and the other Muggle? If they only lived on the edges of the wizarding world - they knew about it, but because of their lack of magical ability they lived in the Muggle world and raised their children that way (like a Muggle-born would be raised) then they would be pleased that at least one of their daughters was a witch, and could be part of the world that they saw but couldn’t really be part of.
We don’t really know what happens to Squibs, do we? Ron comments that he thinks there’s someone in his family who is an accountant, but that they don’t talk about him much. Mrs. Figg is a Squib, and she maintains contact with the wizarding world, but we don’t know much about how she lives. Filch stayed in the wizarding world…but I think there’s something about him/Mrs. Norris that’s yet to be explained. I have no doubt that he is, in fact, a Squib though.
Snape believes that he is the only adult at Hogwarts who treats Harry fairly rather than spoiling and indulging him. He said as much in Prisoner of Azkaban. Snape sees that Harry is a favorite of Dumbledore’s and McGonagall’s and is allowed to get away with all sorts of misbehavior, and he sees himself as a counterbalance. He probably has rather overbalanced what with the openly belittling Harry in class in front of other students, but even there Snape is not much worse to Harry than he is to other non-Slytherin students. And it is unclear to me whether Snape truly does feel a strong bias towards his own House or if he instead finds it helpful to protecting his secret role as a double agent for Dumbledore to act as though he does.
I think Rowling’s depiction of Snape is very interesting, because the character shows that not everyone who is mean or unpleasant is actually evil, and that people can want to help you without being your friend. Harry still isn’t mature enough to understand this (he still doesn’t trust Snape, and I don’t think he’s ever thanked Snape for all his help), but someday I’m sure he will.
The MoM wants Harry silenced or discredited because, even though the MoM knows (or thinks they know) that the Big V is dead, there is a very real chance that the wizarding public will believe Harry’s “crazy” story. The MoM doesn’t want to deal with senseless widespread panic, nor do they want the public demanding to know why they aren’t doing anything to act against Voldemort when as far as the MoM is concerned there’s nothing that can or needs to be done.
She is perhaps more subtle than you give her credit for. Having Umbridge working for Voldemort would have been predictable and, frankly, both stupid and boring. After it was revealed that she had called in the dementors I was afraid that was going to be the explanation, and it would have disappointed me very much had it been. But, as one of the adults told Harry early on in Order of the Phoenix, not everyone who is horrible is in league with Voldemort. Another moral lesson for our young hero, although again I’m not sure if he’s mature enough to appreciate it.
Umbridge is perhaps evil, but her evil does not have the style or glamour of Voldemort’s. Umbridge illustrates the banality of evil. Despite her magical powers, she’s a mundane, human evil. She’s almost Nazi-like in her obsession with racial purity, strict adherence to the rules, and endless paperwork. Not Hitler-like, though – she hasn’t got the flair or the imagination. She’s more or less “just obeying orders”, although her willingness to go beyond those orders and outside the letter of the law when it suits her indicates that she is obsessed with her cause and likely mentally unstable.
I was frustrated by the whole mirror thing at the end too, although like Harry I had forgotten about the gift at the time he wanted to contact Sirius. But I think maybe Harry didn’t understand what the gift would really do. From what Sirius said when he gave the gift to Harry, I think Harry might have interpreted his words to mean that it was some sort of summoning device rather than a communication device. Something like that probably would be too risky to use.
Still, I find it hard to believe that Harry never even opened the gift to see what it was. I was really surprised about that. Who leaves a present unopened for months, even if they’re sure it’s something they’ll never use? But perhaps Harry felt that if he opened it he’d be too tempted to use it. I do hope Rowling does something with this in the next book though, because I found it a very frustrating plot point in this one.