I do; they did.
Where we’re going, we don’t need proof.
We have about 1/3 of the population that has built up an immunity to facts. They cannot be reasoned with, only outvoted. And now, perhaps they need to be outcheated and outhacked.
Do you regret those votes in particular, just out of curiosity, since they essentially voted to overturn a lawful election?
Are you asking whether I regret my vote, or whether I regret my representative’s vote?
Out here they elected Mike Garcia by the slimmest of margins, due to the facts he was a businessman, a veteran, and had R after his name. After he voted to overturn the election, quite a few voters turned against him, but others hardened their support.
He is unlikely to get re-elected, but who knows?
Your vote. I’m asking if you found their votes so repellent that you wish you could change your vote to their opponent.
Well, no; there’s admittedly some guesswork, but so far I’m still figuring I’d find the defeated opponent’s hypothetical votes more, uh, repellent. (And, coming back around: possibly you have a right-wing counterpart on some other board, who’d surely ask me whether I find this or that action by Biden to be “so repellent” that I now wish I could change my vote to Trump; and, well, again, I’d say: no.)
I was presuming that if you found Trump so repellent that you voted against him, then you’d probably find his enablers in congress so repellent, especially after they actively supported his attempt to overturn a lawful election.
As far as I can tell, the vote in question was — like said lawful election — y’know, lawful.
(Also, so long as you’re “presuming”, I guess I’m “presuming” that they knew how the vote would go.)
Sure, it was lawful - a lawful attempt to overturn a lawful election. Someone could attempt to pass a constitutional amendment restoring slavery - that would be lawful, but morally abominable, and hopefully you’d agree. Similarly, this lawful vote was abominable and did great harm to American democracy, and thus IMO is about as repellent as political actions can get.
This whole post brings back the memories!
You skipped over the few months of Jon Kyl but that was entirely insignificant anyway. But watching McSally make the wrong choice over and over was just so . . .
Could not help but be disappointed in her personally, but so delighted that she made a distinction between her and the almost identical former tactical pilot candidate on the other side. McSally was going to defer to Trump no matter how disgusting he was or would ever become (even though she must have despised him as much as the rest of us did). She made herself toxic and handed the job to Kelly. Good times, good times.
Would you vote against them in the next primary, assuming they were running against a more typical, say Reagan era, conservative?
Still all about cutting taxes, reducing govt and regulations, ensuring you have access to guns, and restricting women’s access to reproductive care, but without the support for overturning our democracy as the Republicans that you have voted for did?
Probably. (I mean, you could maybe brew up some kind of ‘gotcha’ from that; but, yeah, what you say sounds right: if we get into magic-wand territory, I’d presumably want someone in the office who votes the way I would 100% of the time — and, well, that would include voting to certify.)
NO. Over sixty different state and federal courts dismissed the cases due to lack of credible evidence.
To be fair, a lot of the cases - in fact, most of them IIRC - weren’t about proving fraud; they were arguments over procedural matters (that were also rejected with, I think, one exception in PA). But in the cases in which fraud was raised, the lawyers involved were indeed unable or unwilling to provide any credible evidence of such.
And most of those were about the legality of mail-in votes.
This is the original narrative of Trump’s stolen election claim.
- Mail-in voting is illegal
- Trump was winning before mail-in votes were counted.
- Once the mail-in votes were counted he lost.
- It was mail-in votes that turn his win into a loss.
- And since mail-in votes are illegal, the election was stolen.
- and also the same for late votes.
In Trump’s speech, in which he said “If you count the legal votes, I easily win” he specifically talks about mail-in votes. No claims then of rigged voting machines. That came later.
Spoken by a guy who voted by mail. So maybe it’s mail-in votes are illegal everywhere but Florida.
If there was true instant karma in the world, one of the swing states would pass an initiative[*] that changes the election to 100% vote-by-mail. Just to see that orange-dyed head explode.
[*] Arizona, Florida and Michigan all have an initiative process for constitutional amendments. Some Dem-billionaire should fund initiative efforts for All-VbM in those states. It would likely be the best use of their election money they could find.
Long post collapsed
I can’t read this whole thread, but it sounds like the vast majority of people here are living in an echo chamber where you hear only others who agree with you. If there was dissent expressed here I didn’t see it so I apologize for that.
I’ll tell you folks like I told my own father. I am not a Republican because the GOP and the DNC are both as corrupt as the day is long.
First of all, it saddens me that that what should be an AMERICAN issue is so politicized that the vast majority of people who have a D after their name have been taught to hate Orange Man so much that they will not even consider the possibility that their party may have cheated, and open their eyes to LOOK at what evidence there is. Or they just don’t care that their party cheated (and that many Republicans helped them!), and are just happy their guy won, even if he’s illegitimate, never mind what he’s doing to the country now.
It’s very interesting to me that every single time a Republican wins, all we hear about from that election day until some democrat wins in the next election is that there was fraud, that there was collusion with Russia, that there was “voter suppression.” The country was dragged through four years of a phony Russia collusion investigation that produced JACK, and which only now is FINALLY being investigated for the LIES that led to that investigation.
But the INSTANT that a Republican is defeated and asks for investigations and audits because he warned months before this that unconstitutional COVID elections law changes in many states to increase mail in voting would result in fraud, he’s cut off and “corrected” by Brian Williams. He’s called a liar. He’s accused of having fantasies. He’s accused of “baseless claims of voter fraud” by people who can’t possibly know that there WAS no fraud. William Barr LIED, and God willing he will eventually go to prison for it.
Do any of you know that all of our developed world allies BANNED mail in voting years ago because they learned the hard way that it encourages massive cheating?
Do any of you know that in 2018 the democrats sanctioned studies and reports and even made a movie about the fraud potential of mail in voting and of electronic voting machines? NOW they say that fraud and cheating is impossible?!?!?!
Second, the burden of proof has never been on Trump nor anyone else to PROVE election fraud. That’s the first fallacy of all of the reporting starting on November 3rd!
Third, no one HAS to prove that Trump won or even that there was cheating. IN FACT, if they set out to PROVE that Trump won, then I would also question their integrity and their objectivity.
They only HAVE to prove that laws were broken, and that could be just sloppy management (and it seems there was a lot of that too). It didn’t even have to be deliberate cheating!
The burden of proof, by law, is on the elections officials of each state to prove that their election was honest and that the count of every legal vote and ONLY legal votes was reliable.
NOT ONE SINGLE STATE HAS DONE THAT YET.
Recounts of phony baloney ballots are not an investigation and they are not an audit. If I give you five counterfeit $20 bills, I don’t care how many times you count them, they are still illegal, and they are not $100 legal tender.
So far ONLY Arizona has conducted an investigation and an audit, which Maricopa County REPUBLICANS have fought and obstructed in every imaginable way, and despite this, despite defying state senate subpoenas, despite refusing to surrender the network routers or answer specific questions, the auditors found tons of evidence of massive fraud in both mail in ballots AND in voting machines.
I haven’t heard anyone claim that ANYONE RIGGED the Arizona audit. What I have heard is that some Maricopa County RINO never-Trumper leaked ahead of time either a draft version of the report, or a falsified version of the report, and then that the final report was watered down. It’s getting very difficult to know WHAT and WHOM to believe when nearly every single “news” outlet has joined in the cover-up.
But you really should watch the presentation on the audit results before judging what they found. They now have video of Maricopa County elections officials–probably Republicans–DELETING elections related computer files the day before they turned over the machines to the auditors. They have these people identified by name committing a felony, so expect criminal prosecution to follow.
MIT PhD., Dr. Shiva, the inventor of email, who is a Republican, reported his findings of JUST the duplicate mail in ballots (in other words, same name and either two, three and sometimes four ballots with the same name. None of those duplicates should have been counted in November, yet all of them were. Those alone are enough to overturn Arizona and give it to Trump. He also found many ballot envelopes with either no signature or just a scribble that cannot be identified at all. None of those should have been counted.
There are many more issues that I won’t cover. You’re just going to have to watch the presentation yourself. If you’re not willing to then I would ask you what are you afraid of learning?
You can watch it here:
https://www.oann.com/historic-arizona-elections-audit-watch-live/
Or Here:
Maricopa County election audit results released - YouTube
(Surprising to me that the communists at YouTube haven’t censored or deleted it yet).
So that’s just Arizona. Georgia is next. There is now cellphone tower ping data and corresponding surveillance video data of 242 “ballot traffickers” who have been identified BY NAME, dumping backpacks full of forged ballots into Zuckerberg funded ballot drop boxes in six states, including Arizona. One single drop box in Georgia accounts for 19,000 forged ballots in a single weekend, which by itself is more than enough to also overturn Georgia. Each of these 242 ballot traffickers averaged 23 drop boxes EACH. Expect to see criminal prosecution of those people too.
There are many, many more ways that fraud happened, so just suspend your partisan judgment and watch the evidence as it finally begins to roll out.
Remember this:
“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.” ― Joseph Stalin
Um, no.