Has hip-hop gone anywhere since the early 2000s?

Cafe Society
1

It seems like only a few years ago I picked up some CDs in the bargain bin, and one of them was the “Romeo Must Die” soundtrack. This featured “Try Again” by the late great Aaliyah:

There are more than a few good tracks on that CD. It's delightfully stupid but entertaining movie, too.

The thing is… by the year 2000, rap and hip-hop seemed to reach a pinnacle of what may be termed “modernity.” Everything had been done: goofy, angry, tonal, atonal, sample-based, synth-based. And so on. You have the best work of DMX and Eminem in there, IMHO, so it’s not like some game-changing artist has emerged since then.

I have Sirius XM in the car, and if I listen to the new rap station, I think, “Wow this totally sucks.” It’s a pretty degraded vibe, focused on hos, drugs, bling, etc. Nothing seems to be new. The sound seems in a pretty narrow range.

Then if I listen to the old-school rap station, I think, “Wow! This is awesome.” Great range of topics, sounds, approaches, and so on. Plus, the stuff from the 90s, for example, sounds pretty modern to my ears. (I would not say that about Grandmaster Flash and Newcleus, mind you, though that stuff is great.)

That doesn’t mean I don’t think good songs haven’t been done since 2000. Now and then I’ll hear one. Rather, it just seems that any sense of trend has been lost (gangsta, New Jack Swing, etc. etc.) and overall quality has declined.

I’m calling out hip-hop for the sake of a more concentrated discussion. I wouldn’t say it’s the only genre that suffers lately. (Have you ever listened to “Octane” on Sirius XM? They call that “hard rock”? A topic for another thread, for sure…)

I’ll preempt the standard easy response: “People have always said that today’s music sucks! Kids get off my lawn! Etc.!” I don’t agree that musical quality is always even, and genres come and go. For example, few would argue that jazz is at its height in 2014.

Hip-hop is a genre with, in theory, a very wide range of possible sounds and styles, much more so than the blues or country. But it seems to have boxed itself in pretty tight these days with limited musical thinking. Or maybe I’m wrong–what do you think?

2

The problem is that the good stuff doesn’t get popular, because everyone is chasing that tone to the exclusion of the much wider perspective that hip-hop can give you. Underground/Alternative hip-hop preserves that old-school feeling, presents a lot of different topics and styles, and allows you to be a special kind of hipster called a “backpacker”.

Check out the following labels:

[ul]
[li]Rhymesayers[/li][li]Hieroglyphics Imperium[/li][li]Strange Music[/li][li]Fat Beats Records[/li][li]Definitive Jux[/li][/ul]

Among others, of course.

3

Country music is probably more diverse than its ever been. There’s little correlation between The Reverend Peyton’s Big Damn Band, Jay Munly, Alela Diane, or The Gospel Whiskey Runners.

In the realm of rap, I presume that the issue is that it’s gone so far mainstream that it would just throwing away money to make something creative, and Sirius doesn’t play anything but the top 40 on any of most of their channels.

I presume that there’s some creative rap being made. Dessa is good. The other Doomtree members might be as well, I don’t know. I’d suggest clicking through Last.fm to find some rap fans with eclectic tastes.

4

I will check out the suggestions, thanks.

I always assume that somebody in any genre is doing something good and creative. But I’m curious about where rap is now in terms of its more popular side: whether it’s lost its way or am I missing something.

5

Def Jux went out of business about 5 years ago, but I would certainly say their founder El-P (who was in Company Flow, which released music from around 1993-2000 and put out the first rap LP on Rawkus) has been doing much new stuff since 2000. In addition to his 3 solo rap albums (most recently on Fat Possum after Def jux folded), he did a jazz album, fully produced several hip-hop albums for other artists (2001’s The Cold Vein by Cannibal Ox is oft-cited as an underground classic), did a few remix albums of his own and remixed songs for artists like NIN, TV on The Radio, The Mars Volta, etc. and is now in my favorite Rap Duo- Run The Jewels w/ Killer Mike.

I think to appreciate Run The Jewels (it’s very stylistically and lyrically different from their solo work and might be hard to “get” if you take it the wrong way, IMHO) you have to sort of be familiar with the evolution of their careers over the past decade, including Mike’s journey from early 2000s Outkast-sidekick (he won a Grammy) through his Purple Ribbon purgatory, being signed to TI’s label and putting out his “Pledge” series, up through being introduced to El-P through Williams Street Records (the label run by Adult Swim). In 2012, within the same month El-P released his own album and fully produced Mike’s album “R.A.P. Music.” Both made a lot of critics’ lists for top albums of the year in hip-hop and any genre. Then they formed the duo Run The Jewels and gave away their album for free, which they are repeating this year for Run The Jewels 2 (through the label co-owned by Nas). So, that’s been my favorite thing happening for the past 2 years and I think probably the most pleasant surprise in the independent hip-hop world.

As far as some of the other labels mentioned- Rhymesayers and Atmosphere continue to put out new records and heavy touring, signing high profile guys like Aesop Rock (the #1 artist on Def Jux from 2001-2009) and lower-profile but solid veteran rappers like Blueprint, putting out the Dilated People’s solo and group comeback albums, etc. I don’t listen to much Strange Famous stuff, but it’s hard to not admire their success as far as enduring hip-hop labels go.

I’ve always listened to the more “underground” stuff AND mainstream stuff. So a lot of the people who were around in the late 90s never really went away to me. And in 2003, no one would have thought that El-P and Killer Mike would team up- IF you even know who both of them were (if you knew “underground” you definitely knew El-P… If you listened to more commercial stuff, you definitely heard Killer Mike either on his “ADIDAS” single or his Outkast and Bone Crusher features). My tastes aren’t for everybody though.

On the more popular side- as far rap currently getting commercial play and sales, I’m afraid I don’t have much to say. I’m not one of those underground snobs, and you can bet your favorite rapper’s favorite underground rapper listens to commercial stuff. I mean, I definitely don’t care for Iggy Azalea or Niki Minaj. Kendrick Lamar managed to sell a million and still have a pretty good reputation with a lot of “hip-hop heads.” Guys like Drake and Macklemore mostly get made fun of, but they are probably where it’s at as far as hip-hop influenced pop music. I liked some popular stuff throughout the 2000s like some TI and Outkast, Jay-Z/Nas, etc… but I think around the turn of this decade I entered old man bubble territory.

6

I respectfully disagree. I think many of the more unique and interesting rappers have done their best work post-2000. Guys like Drake, Kanye, Kendrick Lamar, Lil Wayne, are really popular, and they make great music.

Well, I think it’s important to remember that music of previous generations is always curated to exclude all the shitty stuff that didn’t age well. That said, I think today’s music is MUCH broader in terms of range and personality. Now, we are seeing people make music who grew up listening to rap in its fully evolved form. Now, you can be a respected, popular rapper without having to sell your back story about how you sold drugs, got shot, and grew up poor.

Regardless of how you feel about their music, people like Iggy Azalea, Childish Gambino, and even Kanye could not have done the music they do 15 or 20 years ago. Artists like Estelle, Nicki Minaj, Janelle Monae, and MIA would have have to dramatically change their style to fit into a narrow genre. They certainly would not be working as much across genres with musicians and bands like Fun. or Diplo or J.R. Rotem. You almost NEVER saw popular rappers who grew up rich or middle class, or those from Australia or Canada. Now such things are rarely questioned.

But that is a function of fewer people making and listening to Jazz music, not because the music suddenly became shitty. I think if you have a critical mass of people making a certain type of music (as you do with Rap), you are likely to get pretty similar quality over a given time period.

I think what you hear in the top 40 is safer, but I don’t think it’s necessarily limited creatively speaking. It’s probably more a little repetitive because popular music (which includes Rap) relies a bit more on specialization than less popular music. By that I mean that rather than a group like Wu Tang, or Gang Starr doing essentially everything in house, most rappers pick and choose between top producers and collaborators in order to create a safer, popular sound. It’s just more of a business now. The same is true of movies. The top 40 is the equivalent of the summer blockbuster movie market. It’s mostly known quantities and sequels. Some of it is still worth seeing or listening to, but it’s purpose is to provide people with a diversion they can use to pass the time and sing along to; not (primarily) to challenge the audience. The same applies to other genres as well. It’s not a coincidence that Pharell produced, wrote, or performed on many of the top songs this past summer, or that bands like Fun. use producers known for rap music.

That said, given the number of talented musicians working and the democratization of the tools of production and distribution, I think FAR more good music is being produced today even if it’s harder to find.

7

Can I ask a tangential question?

I’ve got some MIA, Niki Minaj, a couple Kanye and Childish Gambino on my iPod. I have no idea how I came across the songs I got but I love them them a lot. Great beats and rhymes. I even have CG’s album Culdesac and I’m totally into it.

But every time I flip on the local rap station - the Clear Channel one, not the independent one - I’m not hearing any of these artists.

There’s this particular sound that is being played with every song. It’s slow, it’s kinda monotone. Very repetitive. It’s like every song is based off of Drakes “Started From The Bottom” (which may be based off something else, I do not know).

What’s the deal with this? It seems like good weed smokin’ music and maybe some slow grinding but it’s not high energy dance music. Maybe good for doin’ the Dougie but not much of anything else.

Is there a name for this style? Is this actually the dominant style (being that it’s Clear Channel) or am I just happening to only ever flip on the station during Chill Out Hour?

8

Informative, guys, thanks! And maybe ZipperJJ is expressing what I am hearing as a non-expert when I turn on Sirius XM.

9

Because there is not much of a market demand for their music despite its quality (save Nicki and Kanye to some extent). Radio exists to make money for corporations by selling profitable artists. They don’t take many risks on outsiders largely because it’s riskier, and because they don’t know or have relationships with the people involved with the production and distribution.

As far as the sound being similar, I think that’s just because a handful of producers and artists are getting a lot of play now. Guys like Mike Will Made It, and many of the guys from OVO Sound (Drake’s label) are popular.

10

I see the trend now as not making full length rap songs, just having pop songs with a mandatory “guest rapper” do a 20-30 second guest spot in the middle of the song. 2 Chainz seems to be the champion of this, although Nikki Minaj is trying to take over.

11

I’ve been trying for years to turn you people on to “nerdcore” hip-hop, but you never listen :frowning:

12

I love Schaffer The Darklord! But I hate MC Chris, he is so creepy.

Still don’t hear it on the radio :slight_smile:

13

“99% Of Everything Is Shit.” Probably as true in hip-hop as it is in every genre.

Having said that, look up MF DOOM. I don’t know enough about hip-hop to say if he’s had an “influence,” or if any one of his albums could be considered a “game-changer,” but at least he’s very very very good. So that’s nice. :slight_smile:

14

…and STD ISN’T creepy?

15

Well at least he sounds like a grown up man when he sings!

16

I never got into MC Chris, but I do like MC Lars:

Guitar Hero Hero
(Fantastic guitar work in a guest appearance by Paul Gilbert)

Word Burglar with More or Les:

Rhyme O’Clock

Word Burglar by himself (well, with some guests at a comic convention):

Drawings with Words

“Dude saw more pussy than Catwoman’s undies.” What. A. Line.

Canadian, white version of Heavy D, Jesse Dangerously, in a duet with his girlfriend:

Bring Your Girlfriend To Rap Day
(seriously, I’ve never seen another duet between two people so much in love with each other)

And on a more serious note, another Canadian rapper, Timbuktu:

Lead By Example

17

My three favorite rappers of the moment:

Alpoko Don

Watsky

Akala

18

I’m on an iPad, so can’t link a whole lot, but here is K-The-I???

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And Saturday Morning Soundtrack

20

Good, mainstream hip-hop peaked in the 90’s. Today hip-hop is like beer. The mainstream stuff is either crap or palatable, if sort of weak, and everybody swears that their super-obscure local artist that no one else has ever heard of is the real deal, excellent stuff.