Quit being a God damned drama queen.
The irony here is that lefties are always accusing righties of irrational fear.
Uh, I saw my share of shrill lefty drama in the Pit & I egged it on.
This is tame, and this also isn’t the place to provoke more of it.
All of this is said, of course, in an attempt to be helpful & not to Jr. Mod.
This is one of those issues where many on the left and the right are simply never going to agree. Similar to religion. I KNOW there is no G/god(s), and cannot really understand why a thinking individual would think otherwise. But the undeniable fact is that a good many do, and neither of us has any chance of swaying the other’s opinion.
8 years ago I thought Bush would be an embarrassment as president. 4 years ago I thought he was a danger. But both times a majority of my fellow citizens chose otherwise (creative accounting aside.) I cannot imagine how EVERY thinking human cannot agree that the Bush administration has been horrible for our country, and how despicable the conservative agenda is. But at least 28% if not more of my fellow citizens feel exactly opposite. And you know that each and every one of them is going out to the polls come November.
In the meantime, there is a large group of potential voters who seem to think the nomination of Palin is anything other than a blatant PR ploy. Ooh shiney! And they eagerly ignore the emptiness of McCain’s slogans. Add them to the true believers, and I believe there is a very real reason for liberals and lovers of freedom to be scared. I only hope they are scared enough to show up at the polls…
Yeah, you’re right, I walked right up to the line and maybe even stuck a toe across it. For that, I apologize to the mods. It’s just that all the overwrought rhetoric is really getting on my nerves (and it isn’t always the lefties who do it to me).
Paglia is a feminist only in the same sense that Ronald Reagan was a labor politician.
They’re perfectly comfortable with Palin on her own - in fact, right now she’s in the process of spending 2 days with an ABC news crew doing multiple interviews.
But they do have a problem with Palin campaigning on her own - and the problem is that she’s going to draw crowds far bigger than McCain’s. The campaign is worried about their Vice Presidential nominee speaking to crowds of 10,000 people, while their actual Presidential nominee is talking to people at Denny’s. That’s why they didn’t split her off from McCain this week.
Historically I’m neither a Democrat nor Republican – I’ve voted for both and am registered as neither. The Bush administraion has made me lean left for the time being, because I find his policies and actions extremely harmful, so I guess I’m qualified to answer this question.
Scared? Of course not – that’s a silly and overly-charged term.
The accurate word is “dismayed,” and that’s for two reasons:
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She has undeniably increased the likelihood of a McCain victory, and I think that will be a disaster for the country:
a. I feel that current republican foreign policy, which McCain supports, is dangerously short-sighted, creating two terrorists for every one it destroys while needlessly spending our nation’s blood and treasure.
b. There’s a good chance he’ll be able to make the Supreme Court into one that will regularly decide in favor of corporate interests over individual ones, not to mention advancing a conservative social agenda I find distasteful.
c. “Tax-cut-and-spend-like-crazy” is a terrible way to run the country’s finances, and I see no reason to expect McCain’s stewardship will differ from Bush’s in that regard.
d. President Bush has suppressed and altered dozens of scientific reports, and gutted regulatory agencies that oversee business, replacing science-based policy with pro-business policy. He’s actively and provably anti-science. Again, I see no reason to expect differently from McCain.
e. I think McCain is more likely than Obama to eschew energy policies that are good for the environment and reduce our foreign-oil dependancy. I think he’s more likely to support energy policies that please the oil companies and their lobbyists. -
There’s a reasonable chance that Palin herself will become President, and that would be a disaster for all the reasons mentioned above, plus she’s more likely to actively support the social agenda of the religious right, and fight against separation of church and state.
So, yeah, I think Palin’s ascent has increased the chances that our country will continue to decline in a number of ways that are important to me. I’m not scared. I’m sad.
I don’t think it has ‘scared’ them, no. What I think it has done is either enraged the stupid ones and made the rest thoughtful for the first time. Based on the number of heated rantage directed toward her, and the number of ‘gotch’ type threads pouring out it’s certainly made someone out there in Dem land a bit worried. You don’t expend that kind of energy digging up and throwing out into the path the kinds of silly shit we’ve been seeing…not unless you are seriously concerned. I doubt even a fraction of this level of effort was expended toward, say, Dan Quayle. Hell, THIS much level of effort wasn’t expended in attacks on Dearth Chaney!
I’ve noticed the tone has changed in a lot of the (myriad…seemingly endless) threads concerning Palin lately. Oh sure, there are the knee jerk screechers still out there yammering away. But a lot of the real good posters have started to take things seriously and to give more thoughtful and honest answers…while also doing better research into the endless ‘scandals’ that have been laid at her feet.
Luckily, I think Obama took her seriously right off the bat, so I don’t think the fact that she is emerging as a serious plus for McCain is taking HIM by surprise…and hopefully not his campaign either. She has real weaknesses that can be exploited…but his faithful followers seem locked into snarling attack dog mode, fixating on the fact she has a ‘vagina’ or calling her ‘stupid bitch’, etc etc…a sure sign that whatever they are saying there is some level of worry there. Obama on the other hand has been calm, deliberate and rational…a sure sign that while he takes her (and McCain) seriously, at least he’s not worried or scared.
-XT
I’m scared of what her nomination says about our political process. That we’ve become so accepting of investigations into ethics that we will nominate someone in the middle of an ethics investigation for a higher office. Either, we don’t take ethics investigations seriously because they’ve become a political tool (which is a bad thing) or we’ve become so blase about corrupt politicians that we no longer care if they aren’t ethical (which is also a bad thing - though I’m not sure that its worse than the first, quite honestly).
I’m scared of Palin being attractive and getting the nomination, as opposed to other female politicians not as blessed as she in the looks department says about the lookism and sexism of our society. I know its there (I’m a pretty attractive woman myself) - but I’m scared of it. And I’m really scared when its in play at this level of power (not that it is new - Kerry is not an attractive man - but for some reason, there is always more lookism at play when women are involved).
The only scary part is that a lying clueless corrupt person can get picked for VP and not totally sink the ticket. Hopefully there are enough sane people in America for it not to matter.
And Sam, come on, Gibson? Aside from him totally lacking a journalistic ethic, if he asks anything remotely difficult they’ll just cut off the interview.
Newsweek’s report on Troopergate isn’t pretty either, hopefully that blows up.
xtisme, it seems more like Democrats consider her a complete joke, and are overeager to find the scandal that brings her down. Lots of silly stuff results, but it’s not out of fear of her. I don’t think most can even understand her appeal.
Doesn’t seem that way to me. The heat and fire directed at her has been anything but a ‘joke’. Danny boy was a joke…and the Dems treated him that way. They didn’t take him seriously, didn’t spend endless time and effort to dig up ridiculous ‘scandals’ on him because he wasn’t considered worth the time or effort.
So no, I disagree with your assessment. I think a lot of Dems WANT to act like she is a joke, or are trying to convince themselves she is a joke. I agree with your last sentence though…I think a lot of folks around these parts can’t even understand her appeal. Sort of like they never got why Bush was popular, or how he could get elected/re-elected in the first place.
To paraphrase: “It’s impossible that Nixon got elected! None of MY friends or acquaintances voted for him!”
-XT
In the real world? No. I don’t think she scared Obama or the Democrats. Surpised maybe, but not scared. On this message board? Yes. They are scared shitless.
I think Obama is personable, charismatic, and pretty inspirational, even if I don’t agree with his politics. And I think, despite what Obama says, that most people vote on whether or not they ‘like’ a candidate.
So for Obama supporters here, it was pretty cut and dry. Everybody likes Obama, so he has the automatic ‘in’ with the undecided voters. They were counting on, or even expecting, McCain to pick another stodgy old white guy. Personable and inspirational beats old and stodgy every day of the week.
But then McCain picks Palin. She’s snarky, successful, inspirational to regular folks, she looks good AND she’s smart. She’s counter to everything the left wants to think about Republican women. They want them to be old and stodgy, or young and bitchy. They aren’t supposed to be likable! So the muckraking begins, with the Obama supporters here on the board desperate to find a reason why we shouldn’t like her.
And the mean time, the independents (the stupid, racist voters that Diogenes is always harping about) are moving to McCain in droves: McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents.
I’m an independent, but I’m scared that there might be enough people out there dumb enough to change their votes based on her nomination, considering the polls that show that McCain has taken the lead from Obama in the white woman demographic. Considering her stances on abortion, rape, and education I think this is really counterproductive for them, but people are stupid.
That’s funny… I don’t feel “scared shitless”.
I always thought that telling other people their motives/feelings was a pretty lame tactic. I mean, obviously Sinaijon only said I’m “scared shitless” because he’s seen that McCain’s bounce is capping off and is terrified of McCain losing, right?
Right?
:rolleyes:
Wow. A 12% increase among independents since the convention, and a 5% increase among Democrats.
Given Gallup’s fiddling with their weightings, I’m not sure why that should be given much credibility (when Rasmussen polls Republicans worse than you, you screwed up.). Plus, y’know, a single poll doesn’t mean jack. Not to say it’s not true, it may well be, but Gallup are totally out of whack with everyone else at the moment, so something’s messed up somewhere at the moment.
ETA: Rasmussen has Obama tied yesterday, +1 today, WSJ has Obama +1, yet Gallup has McCain +5 2 days in a row? Plus that absurd McCain + 10 poll, plus a +5 to Republican Generic vs Generic poll. They’re either geniuses picking up on something, or they’re screwing up bad.
As for Ms Palin, I don’t know about you, but someone who’s received a grand total of 120k votes in their lifetime isn’t really my idea of a successful politician. She’s a big fish in a very small pond. And smart? You kid! She’s as clueless as Mr Bush, has a trail of corruption and lies lying in her wake, and she’s a creationist to boot. She’s dumb.
These are 2 things I find troubling about Palin:
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Some younger, moderate conservatives who wouldn’t turn out to vote for 2 white men and more of the same might actually turn out to vote for a maverick and a woman. It could throw off the momentum off for the whole “we’re running a woman/minority first” thing (though Geraldine Ferraro was really first). Is it a big worry? Nah, although it certainly can’t be ignored.
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The spectre of her actually getting elected to VP and eventually succeeding as POTUS is frightening to me because the combination of her ideology plus inexperience could potentially be as disastrous as the GWB administration.
But do I feel like “oh noes Obama’s going to loes now”? No, of course not. He just won’t be able to coast in so easily now.
Perhaps you should consider another analysis.
I thought it was quite obvious that ‘they’ in conversations like this was not specific to particular individuals, but rather the majority of a faction.
So, indeed, Jophiel, I don’t necessarily think that you in particular are scared shitless, but rather the majority of Obama supporters who participate in threads like
[ul]
[li]OMG! Palin Collected Travel Per Diems While At Home!’[/li][li]‘OMG! Palin has no idea how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac operate!’[/li][li]‘Would it be fair to ask Palin a Kitty Dukakis question about her daughter?’[/li][li]‘Where in the world is Sarah Palin? or Responsibilities of Canididates’[/li][li]'Sarah Palin investigated for Abuse of Gubernatorial Power. Some Questions. '[/li][li]‘Mayor Palin tried to force her local Library to ban books she didn’t like.’[/li][li]‘Is being the governor of Alaska significantly relevant experience for US Presidency?’[/li][li]‘If Palin is dropped from the ticket, who should McCain replace her with?’[/li][li]‘Is Palin a celebrity now?’[/li][li]‘The Palin Baby Rumor - Proven False?’[/li][li]‘Sarah Palin Thread 329: How SHOULD Bristol’s pregnancy have been handled?’[/li][li]‘McCain Supporters, please answer a question’[/li][li]'She was only for it before she was against it, but she’ll spend the dough anyways '[/li][li]‘Has McCain’s VP Pick Left Him Vulnerable?’[/li][li]‘How should Palin address her family situation Part Deux’[/li][li]'Is Palin evidence of McCain’s incompetence as an executive?[/li][li]‘Would Palin be worse than GWB as President?’[/li][li]‘Sarah Palin slashed funding for teenage moms’[/li][li]‘McCain wanted Lieberman or Ridge, met with Palin for the first time last week’[/li][li]‘Palin chuckles at shock jock’s puerile insults’[/li][li]'How should Palin address her family situation '[/li]
[/ul]
Good point. Never trust an independent source like Gallop when a much more object source like the DailyKos is available. :rolleyes: