Actually, I was just listening to The Press Pool with Julie Mason on Sirius XM and they were talking about the Obama administration versus the current one and I thought to myself, “I remember reading that a lot of people who voted for Obama went on to vote for Trump, what kind of person would do that? I really wonder?”
Then instantly, as if they read my mind, a black guy called in. He launched into an extremely animated and detailed discourse about how black people in America are no longer feeling like the Democrats are their party ever since the Democrats started making a big cause over illegal immigration, and went into all this detail about how black people in the hood (his word, not mine) are very worried about 1. illegal immigrants taking their jobs and 2. actual violence from South American and Mexican gangs, and how they (black people) are very conscious of how “tribal” these immigrants are and how many of them are racist against black people (again, his words, not mine)…he went on and on and after a while, I did find myself wondering if African Americans are as dependable of a voting base as the Democrats seem to think they are.
While there are definitely a lot of white racists among Trump’s supporters, I can’t exactly say I’m surprised to learn that anyone from any background would be willing to buy what he’s selling.
I’m uncertain this is a trait specific to leftists. What about disenfranchising felons? That strikes me more as a right-wing plank, and it has implications far more significant than just not being forgiven.
Its a valid concern, but only 4% of black women voted for Trump. Black women tend to earn lower wages and many work in service fields where they face a lot of competition from illegal immigrants.
So why did so few black women vote for Trump if fear of economic competition from illegal immigrants was the motivation? It was mostly only whites w/o a college degree, particularly white men.
Plus the areas with the most illegal immigrants (California, Texas and the southwest) didn’t move right under Trump. They all stayed the same or moved left, despite nearly half of the illegal immigrants in America being in those 7 states (CA, NV, UT, CO, NM, AZ, TX). California and Texas were further left in 2016 than they were in 2012. The rest of the states didn’t move far to the right as far as I know.
Yes the left get very upset at those they see as hostile to egalitarianism. But they seem to accept people who reform.
George Wallace repented. As far as I know he was accepted.
Several leading voices on the left were once republicans. Ariana Huffington. Markos Moulitsas. Ed Schultz. Elizabeth Warren. It isn’t held against them.
Right now the left is angry because the right elected a wanna-be dictator who is humiliating our nation and working for our enemies.
I didn’t say exclusive, just that I see it as an issue that needs to be worked on if we are expected to get any converts.
Not by everyone, and times have changed
They are not exactly the modern conservatives, they bailed when the party started getting toxic. We are talking about people still in the party, who have, so far, not rejected the bigotry in their party, even if they have not embraced it themselves. I have seen many describe voting for trump as being an unforgivable sin.
Anger doesn’t solve anything. As you say, the left is angry at the right for voting for trump, what would it take for a trump voter to be forgiven, in your eyes?
How incompetent he is. How criminal he is. How corrupt he is. How treasonous he is. How hostile to democracy he is. How he appeals to the worst and most divisive instincts in people. How much damage he has done to our reputation, our alliances and the office of president.
I’d want his voters to admit to all these things, and admit their part in making them happen, and then say they will do what they can to help fix it.
Most people on the right are in denial about all these things. Or a small fraction admit these things happen but if you ask them they say ‘its worth it for tax cuts and conservative judges’.
So, you want to put their back up against the wall, and demand concessions that very few humans would accept before you would thank them for their vote against Yrump.
I did ask what it would take for them to be forgiven by you, but say they would be willing to vote for a democrat for president over Trump, nothing more, nothing less. Is that not enough repentance for you?
As it is those who are forgiven that would come to our side and vote trump out, it is best that they do know about it.
Okay. If their repentance is sincere, our forgiveness is required. But as long as they’re willing to fight for decency instead of against it, we can all get over ourselves and get on with the work.
They’d still be political rivals. They’d still be for banning abortions and proliferating guns, low taxes and little government services or regulations, you know, all that conservative stuff. They may not even agree that white privilege exists or that anyone was ever harmed by racism except for white people who didn’t get into the college of their choice because they let blacks in. They may even support Pence.
But, they see that Trump is no good for the country, no matter the ideology, and are willing to agree on that, and just that.
I donno K9. How do you forgive people that believe in stuff like Qannon? I mean I guess you should feel sorry for their… inability to examine facts, but really.
No, I already knew about the racists and homophobes. But I can honestly say that there are definitely more would-be fascists in America than I would have thought prior to Trump’s election.
Why would you forgive someone who believes in QAnon’s “theories”? I didn’t say that you should.
However, if someone had believed in QAnon, and no longer does, then forgiveness seems easy to me.
If you feel that if anyone who has ever fallen for the disinformation that is out there and cultivated specifically to turn minds is beyond forgiveness, then we do have a problem.
Now, someone who believes in QAnnon, and repudiates Trump? I donno either. I suppose given an infinite universe, anything is possible, but it does seem that one precludes the other.
Same as 9/11 truthers, most of them tend to be on the democratic side. They are unable to examine facts as well, but few, if any, of them voted for Trump.
I’ll forgive a drug addicted burglar if he gets help, but will probably not turn over the keys to my house any time soon.
9/11 truthers tend to be on the democratic side? I guess perhaps so.
I find it hard to forgive them as well. The data is there. I get why we have conspiracy theorists. It’s fun to think you know so much more than others, despite the available facts, science, and common knowledge and common sense.
However, we are now looking at something a bit different. The facts are there, just like 9/11. But these folks are using their alternate reality to justify hurting others.
I’m sorry to quote an old saying, but it’s true - “When someone shows you who they are, it’s your job to see it”.
I’m a very helpful and kind person. But, I only have two cheeks to get slapped. So after those slaps I will call the person out for what they are or what they stand for.
Forgiveness? For individuals, maybe. For the Republican party in general. Probably never. There are fascists on our doorstep. And a whole group of so called Americans are blindly supporting them.
[side note]Love your handle K9. My Wife and I have rescued a number of dogs and cats. My first dog, a chocolate lab lived to 13. Shadow (a cat) lived to 22 years old. Our first two rescue pups Rossie and Kricket 12 and 13. We have two new rescue dogs. Jax and Lani. Border Collie mixes.[/side note]