And what kind of act is it to receive an answer yet not be satisfied just because you didn’t hear the same thing come from the mouth of a certain individual? Do you think she has something to reveal that hasn’t been explained already, or are you just indignant at her ignoring a “Royal Summons”?
Did you send her a PM to request her presence here?
She’s been busy with real-life stuff. Yes, a response to even a trivial complaint is typical.
I’m not disputing that. I am simply stating that this case does not fit, it is not a good example. Her phrasing in this action was perfectly acceptable. If you want to make a case, ignore the weak examples, the questionable calls, and the ones that are perfectly good unless you squint your eyes and assume that she’s wrong so this must be a case of that. Go after clear cut examples.
I think it is muddy territory. I think that she has made errors, and that has sensitized some members of the audience. I think there is some selection bias at work. I think the reputation and expectation is making people overreact, like this case. Maybe the mods are being selectively defensive as well. But I can see their position: not only does this thread point out a supposed example that they (and I) do not agree is bad in any way, but it then has turned into a litany of rehashing the past.
Frankly, I’m not sure there is a good way to go about addressing this topic from the board membership’s perspective. The well has been so thoroughly poisoned that any complaint becomes a rehashfest, and that just makes the board admins more obstinate. Raising the issue as a separate thread, moving on from this example and instead pointing out the actual cases, is just invoking the past. Beating up mods isn’t supposed to be allowed, though there’s certainly a fair amount going on in this thread.
Again, I advocate a change to board rules. Allow the Pitting of mods for their actions as moderators. Keep civil discussion of the rules and moderator action in ATMB, and expect response from the board staff, put bitches in the Pit with the caveat that there is no expectation for board staff to even read them, much less comment or take them into consideration for the future. People can vent, but real issues have to be addressed civily.
I see problems with this idea. Would mods be allowed to respond in like manner in The BBQ Pit? If not, a terrible imbalance has been created and an already tough job will be made nastier. On the other hand, if the mods are allowed to respond in like fashion accusations of unfairness will spill over into other forums-“The REAL reason I got a warning and she didn’t is because you obviously don’t like me. I remember what you called me in the BBQ Pit, and here’s the link to prove it!” Accusations of bias are bad enough on this board already and such a chance in policy would make it even worse, in my opinion.
I am satisfied with the answer. It’s not really that big of a deal, and as Marley23 mentioned, she’s busy in real life. However, as he also said, it is unusual for moderators to not respond to a complaint (no matter how trivial) that involves them as the main subject.
I was just wondering…is it permitted to pit moderators in the BBQ Pit for their posts as a poster and not their moderating actions?
Yes.
I can’t speak for anybody else, but I didn’t come here because of the current complaint against her - I came because of her past actions. I still hope, in vain, that some correction will be made. Whether it be her removal as a moderator or her awakening to the inconsistencies in her approach. So whenever there’s an ATMB thread about her, I poke my head in.
Due to the past complaints - including my own - she has zero credibility with me and when someone posts a thread like this, my default assumption is that she’s guilty. When I saw the thread title, I laughed out loud and said to myself “What do they mean, ‘finally’?”
I have nothing against her as a poster, but as a moderator? She is entirely ill-suited.
Seconded; this is exactly, 100%, what I’m thinking.
Sorry guys - I know this is a pointless post because all I’m doing is seconding another poster, but since the thoughts of CandidGamera exactly match mine, I felt like I had to point this out.
I think this is ridiculous, petulant grudge-holding. You disagree with how something was resolved before, fine. But that issue was settled, and you’re not going to get satisfaction. Set it down and walk away.
This thread is about a different complaint against her. If you’re not here because of that complaint, it’s foolish to bring up past, settled issues.
And if you think they’re not settled, you’re wrong. There are old threads dealing with them, and you made your case, and administration rejected your case. For all practical purposes those issues are over and done with.
It was never a problem in the past.
You mean back when the board was smaller, there were fewer rules and more basic rules to follow, moderators were allowed to snark because it reflected the general attitude of the column the board was based on, and posters accepted such snark as part of the culture here? Yeah, those were fun times, weren’t they? The times changed, Guin-the board got much bigger, the rules have been both tightened and increased at the same time, and the mods have had their snarking rights pretty much revoked due to the fact that most new posters have read neither the Straight Dope books or the columns they came from and thus aren’t acclimated to the attitude we used to have here. Right now we have a fairly stable board environment, and changing one aspect as if it existed in a vacuum doesn’t seem wise. BTW, why do you think the policy was changed in the first place if you think there wasn’t any problem with it?
I agree. Back before I really started posting, there were instances of posters being banned-without any real warning- on the most trivial of offenses, where the real reason seemed to be that they personally disagreed with the now banned poster opinions or philosophy. Those were the BAD Old days.
OTOH, I agree with LHoD. The complaint here is bogus. Sure, it was pretty obscure, but once you were in the know, the actions of Twickster are clearly in the right. I think what we have here now is grudge-holding and general whinging.
Now yes, Twickster clearly marches to the beat of a different harmonica, and maybe that’s what really has folks panties in a bunch. That and of course the constant endless complaining against the PtB by some posters.
There’s a difference between funny-snark like Cecil does to letter writers and I’ve-personalized-the-issue-and-insulting-you-with-obvious-disdain snark. See: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/50s-diner/n31810/
You mean back three years ago? :dubious:
It’s been longer than that, I think. If you are referring to the sticky at the top of The BBQ Pit page that was revised in February of 2009(which would make it 4 years, not 3), only the underlined portions were changed or added on that date-the rest of them were from before.
Thank you for the response. This is the first actual response I have seen to this idea, so I appreciate it. To my mind, yes, mods would be able to respond in the Pit in kind. That’s what the Pit is for. But your concern that posters would take the exchanges in the Pit and carry them over as grudges to the moderation elsewhere is noted. We do have people now who already do that.
All I can say is that we would be creating the expectation that moderation discussions go in ATMB, and bitching goes in the Pit. Bitching is a pointless exercise in venting, perhaps with mutual exchange, but just like any other Pit exchange, should not carry over to other forums. However, the attitude with respect to how moderators should behave has shifted since the early days, when manhattan could be the fucking hall monitor. I will give it consideration.
Poking your head in is fine. Dredging up the past when it is irrelevant to this action is just stirring up trouble and not going to lead to any change in the situation. Pointing out that she has a history is irrelevant when this issue is thoroughly justified. All you’re doing is pissing in the pool, and then complaining that it’s warm and smelly.
There were problems, but they were different problems. Originally, all discussions of moderation took place in the Pit. That means it was difficult to have a calm rational discussion because posters took it as expected that invective was to be added. And moderators were forced to be subjected to vile treatment to deal with actual board issues. So the change was to move discussion of moderation to ATMB and make it civil. But the rule also made pitting mods for moderation off limits. That is where I thought it swung too far the other way. My feeling was that Pitting mods for moderation should be allowed but wouldn’t be considered in any capacity as an actionable issue about moderation, merely venting.
FTR, it isn’t. You can’t run anything that way.
This thread ranged very far and wide and I think it’s run its course at this point. Everybody is welcome to their views on any mod and any moderating call, but the complaint here is in error - twickster’s wording was not in any way unusual or inappropriate, and even if you don’t think she’s the best mod, that doesn’t mean she can’t do the same things ever other mod does.
And while there may be a fine line here, ATMB is absolutely not the Pit for mods. Arguments are preferrable to vitriol, and a question about one decision or even a broader complaint about one mod isn’t supposed to be an excuse to drag up every other conceivable complaint.