OK, so im sitting in the office of my private school one day, and being that im a senior of 17 yrs i was waiting to hand in my college apps, when the pledge came on over the loud speaker. Now im not a revolutionary, but i do choose not to stand to say it; mainly because i feel a person should not pledge themselves to a government, but that a government should pledge itself to the poeple. Anyway (I wont get into my beliefs on government here) the headmaster came in and saw me sitting, so when the pledge was over he called me into his office and told me (basiclly) that if i didnt stand for the pledge i would get 15 demerits (3 detentions). Now, ive read Tinker, and im farly up to date on the pledge issue (i think) and i realize that i go to a private school, but it seems a little absurd to me that because of this fact im not garunteed the same rights as other indiviuals. Can anyone help me out, or set me straight? Is there anyway i can fight this, or am i completly wrong? And dont give me anything about patriotism or respect here, im talkin strict individual liberties.
thanks
[Great Debate]
Let me guess - You’ve been listening to Neal Boortz.
When you recite the PoA, you are not pledging your allegiance to your government. You are pledging your allegiance to your country. BIG difference…
[/Great Debate]
IANA lawyer but:
Sorry, Charlie, you’re probably screwed.
You need to look into whether you’re school accepts Federal funding, and if so what kind of strings might be attached to that funding.
There is always the possibility (unlikely) that the headmaster is violating school policy by pushing his own policy at you. I think you have a right to know exactly what school policy you violated, and what authority the headmaster acts on to give you these demerits. But asking such question won’t make you his pal.
BTW, nobody on this board is going to be able to tell you whether you can fight this. How are WE supposed to know the rules of your anonymous private school? You gotta do some research.
i dont who that guy boortz is, but i ask that we not get into political philosophy, i just wanna know if they a right to make me stand or not and what, if anything, you can back up your position with
If you were in a public school, you’d have a very strong case. But… since you are in a private school, your rights are exactly those dictated by the school (as long as you are not subject to inhuman rules/discipline, etc.)
Additionally, you are a minor, which means your parents/guardians decide which school you attend - if they wish to send you to a school which requires standing during the PoA, they can do so.
If you want to dig into legalities, see “in loco parentis” and “emancipation”. you can start here:
thanks much, and ill look into the policies of my school and see what i can dig up
Is this the same guy who pissed and moaned when 7-11 wouldn’t sell him a soda? Or is this a new person?
Well, if it’s of any relevance, state law here apparently requires students to stand for the pledge. Not to recite it, just to stand during it. I don’t particularly agree with the law, but in this case I find it too silly to argue over. But that’s just me.
I’ts been a while since I did something similar - a long while. I refused to stand for the Lord’s prayer and bible readings in public school in Canada. (Actually once when told I had to read something to the class for bible reading, chose Mark Twain’s war prayer.) Definitely public school makes the fight easier. I’d talk with the American Civil LIberties Association. You may also wish to contact Amnisty International - your local branch. There are international treties that the US has signed regarding freedom of religion. I know that when we were pushing for religious freedom up here the treaties wern’t worth the paper they were written on. I don’t know how being a minor affects things - I would assume that you have some rights, especially if you are old enough to leave home if you wish. I would encourage you to push the issue by at least contacting the American Civil Liberties Association.
Private schools may impose such conditions. You have a perfect remedy: withdraw from the school. No constituional right is implicated by this rule. Tinker involved a public school and is thus not on point.
I beg to differ (slightly) [sub]and I guarantee someone will label me a Communist for this[/sub] . . .
I personally do recite the PoA when it is appropriate. However, I believe a simple set of words does not trump one of the fundamental rights this country is founded on: freedom of speech (and the freedom to not speak).
Your school may be private, and it may be able to institute conditions such as these, but at what point do you draw the line? When they dictate what god to worship? When they force you to fess up to cheating on a test you never took? You have inalienable natural rights, no matter who imposes rules on you.
I second what kea and Bricker say: Ask your local ACLU about it, and if it comes down to it, withdrawl from the school - nothing speaks louder than the almighty dollar (in lost tuiton).
Just out of curiosity, was he more angry that you didn’t stand and recite it, or just that you didn’t stand? I mean, you may have just stood silently and ‘blended in with the crowd’ all the while never pledging allegiance to anything. . .
Tripler
I swear, I am NOT a Communist.
Sure Trip, that’s what all the commies say. 
no one EVER has the right to force you to swear allegiance to ANYTHING. That is a personal choice.
Private School, your screwed.
The only basic questions I have are: Why didn’t you? Is it because you don’t approve of the current president/administration? Is it because of a statement of “under God” (nobody told you WHICH god they were talking about)? Is it because you just don’t have the energy to get off your ass? Is it because you simply want to be a crybaby? What’s the problem?
Crafter_Man summed it up. Are you not standing simply because you want to make a statement against a country that allows you to get an education, among many other things? Being as I’ve worn the flag on my sleeve while being shot at, I may be biased, but I have little patience and zero respect for people who cry about their “rights being violated” by having to stand on their feet out of simple respect to others that have been handed their rights by people who believe in the very thing that they are crying about.
If you find a better place to live where you can complain about your civil/constitutional rights, renounce your citizenship and go there. Send me a postcard on how well you like it. If you have no intention of doing so, shut the hell up and find a new lawsuit to try and get rich (yet another “right” that is given to you by this country).
It always amazes me that the people who complain most about their lack of rights and privileges are those who have the most.
I’m not sure, but I think you’re thinking of **Hayduke Lives!!**http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=127357
may i make a suggestion for when youre writing next id appreciate it if youd put some punctuation and capitalization in your writing it would help with legibility