Have there been studies on the effects on males who have sex with older women (usually teachers)?

For the millionth time, I saw an article about how some female teacher was busted for having sex with her underage student.

For the millionth time, the same reactions: “Man, I wish a hot teacher would have fucked me when I was 15! It would have been the best thing!”

For the millionth time, the same reactions: “You wouldn’t feel that way if it was a male teacher and female student. Why the double standard?”

It is undeniable what a male person in a position of authority can do to the girls he has sex with. As far as I know, studies and anecdotal stories have shown how these girls often grow up troubled, with suicide, drug abuse and problems having a healthy sex life as an adult quite different compared to girls who did not get abused.

Are there studies or anecdotes to be heard from the male victims?

I really hate the attitude that so many people have - and I concede that before I became a stepfather to a special needs boy, I made those same comments - but I want to combat it with facts. Do we have any?

Just because the 16-year old me might have loved to have had sex with just about anyone, let alone a hot teacher, doesn’t mean it would have been a good thing for the man I would become. Surely there’s got to be some places I can point these people to show them that it’s not a dream come true, that even male kids with women damages these kids who become damaged adults (in many cases) just like their female counterparts.

I Googled but it’s exceedingly difficult to find any helpful information. I did find a lot of pictures of attractive women who slept with teenagers, however. :smack:

I used this forum rather than General Questions because it seems to be a contentious issue.

I don’t know about a study, but the common sense answer seems pretty obvious – there are lots and lots of things that teenage boys would love to do… and most people know that plenty of these things would be negative for the boy’s life in the long run.

You want to combat it before you know if you’re right?

There was a pit thread and a poll on this very issue, recently. No study, though.

Personnally, I changed my mind following these threads, and now think there might be a significant difference between boys and girls in this regard.

(Also I didn’t , and still don’t, believe that the experience will necessarily be harmful for either. A 15 yo isn’t a baby. It’s the age of consent, here.)

Maybe…but given that apparently, the wide majority of men (as adults) don’t think they would have been harmed (as teens) by such an experience and many think that it would have been in fact beneficial, I think that you need to be more specific on how it would have impacted them negatively. You just can’t take that as granted when men overwhelmingly disagree.

Not when it’s with a teacher. Per the French Penal Code, by way of Wikipedia:

If it didn’t get publicized and turned into a huge public scandal, I wager it doesn’t do jack shit to these kids.

Some other countries (like Germany, I think) and some US states (Michigan, for example) have that proviso as well.

We may well agree it is wrong for a teacher to seek to have sex with a student that they have authority over, because there is a real danger there that the student might feel coerced, and might agree to it despite not really wanting to. This doesn’t just apply to teachers and students but to any pair of people, regardless of their relative age, where one is in authority over the other. This is what sexual harassment laws are about, or what they ought to be about, and is presumably the reason for the French and German laws regarding teachers and students, mentioned above. Such laws are probably a good thing. Certainly the ethical standards for teachers, that they enforce, are. Teachers ought not to try to have sexual relations with their students.

That is a completely different issue from that of whether consensual sex between a teenager and an adult, with a fairly large age gap between them, is likely to be psychologically harmful to the teenager. If it is truly consensual, if the teen really does not feel coerced (and they may very well not, even when the adult does have some sort of potential authority over them), then I can see no reason whatsoever to think that such a relationship is any more likely to be psychologically harmful, or any less likely to be beneficial, than any sexual relationship between full adults. People can get hurt in consensual sexual relationships, but, on the whole, and in most cases (and provided they do not involve betrayal of someone else, or other such complications), they tend to be good things for all involved.

If anything, I should guess that an inexperienced teen is rather more likely to benefit psychologically from a consensual sexual relationship with an experienced adult lover than they would be likely to benefit from a similar relationship when they are older. For a teen it it is likely to be be much more of a learning experience, and much more of a confidence boost than an otherwise similar relationship would be for the same person at a later age. I suppose the possible downside is that a teen having their first relationship is particularly likely to be vulnerable to being badly disappointed when (as is likely) the relationship breaks up. However, I doubt whether that is any more true of a teen than of someone experiencing their first major breakup a bit later in life.

As I said in one one of the earlier threads, I very firmly believe that I myself would have had a much happier, better adjusted, subsequent life if I had had a consensual sexual relationship with an attractive (to me then) woman when I was a young teen, and I suspect this is true of very many men, perhaps even a considerable majority. (I am not saying a sexual relationship with an older woman would have been preferable to one with a girl of around my own age, I am saying that age wouldn’t really have mattered: certainly, back then, I found both teenage girls and women who were well into their thirties plenty attractive.) I think the intense sexual frustration I suffered as a teen messed me up very badly, and I very much doubt that I am enormously unusual in that respect.

If there is a difference between teenage boys and teenage girls in this respect, I think it is probably because a girl is very much less likely than a boy to be giving her wholehearted free consent to a sexual relationship with an adult, without feeling at least a bit pressured or coerced. Not only are the (often internalized) social pressures on teen girls not to have sex (with anybody, of any age) much stronger than they are on teen boys (if anything, the general social pressure on boys is, on balance, in the other direction), but a girl may have quite rational fears about such things as getting pregnant, or the pain of losing her virginity, that are simply not a factor for boys. Very possibly (because men are bastards and all that)* it is also the case that a male teacher, or other authority figure, is rather more likely to knowingly use their authority to pressure an otherwise reluctant girl into sex than a woman teacher or other authority figure is likely to knowingly use theirs to pressure an otherwise reluctant boy, but even if that is not the case (even if the older authority figure truly has not intentionally exerted any such pressure), it remains the case that a girl is less likely to be truly and wholeheartedly consenting. It is for these reasons, I think, that most people’s, certainly most men’s initial reaction to such stories is to envy, or be happy for, the boys in such situations, but to be concerned about the girls. I think that reaction is usually the appropriate one. If anything, we are probably erring a little to far on the side of concern and disapproval in the case of the girls, who may, quite often, be genuinely consenting and having a good and psychological beneficial experience (but almost certainly not as overwhelmingly often as is likely to be the case for the boys).

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*Why are men so often bastards to women? I think a lot of it is probably due to the anger they feel about the intense sexual frustration they suffered in their teens (and, perhaps, beyond). Certainly on the occasions I have behaved badly towards women over sexual relationships (not all that many times, I think, but there are things I am ashamed of) it was in those terms that I justified and rationalized my behavior to myself. (Perhaps I should add that, although I have been a [university] teacher my “bad behavior” never involved having sex with a student, or otherwise abusing any authority I may have had over anyone. It was more a matter of, a few times, rather unceremoniously dumping girlfriends who deserved better of me. If I ever had tried to pressure a student into having sex with me, however, I am sure I would have been justifying it to myself in terms of all the pain of sexual frustration that I had experienced, especially when I was a teen.)

I haven’t heard of that, but I can see it. Similar to how young girls suffer from incest or molestation.

But when you say abuse do you lump all underage sex together, or do you mean actual abuse, like rape or being pressured or blackmailed into it (e.g. from a coach)? Because I think a lot of girls seduce and have sex with older male teachers but don’t get caught because they’re not idiots who brag about it or take pictures to show their friends like teenage guys. And I think it’s likely they turn out fine.

I think the double standard is legit because men are generally more likely to be sexual predators and male/female sexual energy is so different, but this popular idea that teenage girls are some innocent snowflakes with no will of their own is hilarious to me. Did everyone forget highschool that fast? I knew plenty of girls who spoke openly about wanting to bang some of the more handsome teachers.

Mary Kay Letourneau married her student. She got knocked up twice beforehand, including once from hooking up with him a month after being released from prison. To quote him, “I’m not a victim. I’m not ashamed of being a father. I’m not ashamed of being in love with Mary Kay.” Legit or brainwashed by his first?

I think there are a couple other examples of marriage, but I can’t remember them. I don’t know about any reverse gender examples.

The issue isn’t the age difference. It’s the fact that she’s his teacher. How could that ever be considered fully consensual? She could destroy his life with a single word.

My first experience and many of my early experiences were with older women. The only thing I can say odd is that I wasn’t particularly turned on by age appropriate girls. My first wife was several years older. In my bar chasing days I tended to find bars with women in their 30’s or 40’s instead of early 20’s. I finaly reached that age where age appropriate girls were my thing at about 50.

The teacher should then be an adult. Emily “started having sex with adult men when I was 13 years old.” Her story - written as an adult who was outraged when a judge said a 14-year-old “troubled youth” who eventually committed suicide (as a direct result of the sexual assault and its aftermath, according to her mother) had “control over the situation” with a 49-year-old teacher:

The article concludes:

But, you know, that’s not even the topic of this thread. However, if we as a society have in some cases decided that teenage girls who have a crush on their English teacher are culpable if they get involved with them sexually, it seems to me there is no hope of ever convincing anyone that the same dynamic for a teenage boy is anything but awesome for him.

The possibility that a relationship is not consensual does not automatically mean it’s not consensual. If you investigate and the student says one word about being coerced? Sure, string the teacher up. But the mere existence of an imbalance of power is not in itself evidence that imbalance of power was abused - if it was, every stay-at-home-mom, every sub, and every woman who is smaller than her SO would be a rape victim.

Hines and Finkelhor’s literature review from the poll thread.

But later, as adults, most people openly admit it—"yes, I was a stupid teenage boy when I…(got drunk, drove recklessly, vandalized property, didn’t study, quit my job, didn’t save money,etc,etc,etc ), and that had a negative effect on my life in the long run.

Every responsible man can look back and make a list of his stupid teenage behavior—but that list will almost never include “having my first sexual experience with a female teacher”.

I know that. My point was that a 15 yo isn’t a child, and is assumed (here) to be sexually autonomous.

Regardless of the merit or otherwise of the proposition put by the OP, this is an utterly shitfull piece of dreck, unworthy of these boards, which does damage to the pervasiveness of good analysis by its very stink.

Common sense is commonly crap. Most people “know” there is a sky fairy who doesn’t like it if you masturbate. Thousands of things that teenage boys would love to do wouldn’t be negative for the boy’s life in the long run.

Your comments add nothing. Do you have any data?

In fact, that’s rather the other way around, if anything. He could destroy her life with a single word, by telling other people he had sex with her (which apparently he did).

The fact that a teacher (of either gender) has sex with a high-school student is unacceptable. It doesn’t mean, however that the student is going to be harmed by the relationship/one night stand/whatever.

Sex is overblown. There are tons of ways to mess up with people and sex probably isn’t the most efficient.

:smiley: This part is my favorite, because I have no idea what these words in these sequence can possibly mean.

Ask someone who speaks English.