Ah, I thought it was his whole senior year he messed up on.
So it was only the last semester?
Actually in the article it says “senior year” so your 1.4 is inaccurate.
He got a 2.6, which while obviously not good, is not nearly as bad as what everyone is saying.
Super Gnat –
Can I take this to be the restatement of your “who if not the individual should be responsible?”. If so, forget the definitions. If not, please provide the definition yourself; after all, you asked the question and introduced the term, so it’s only fair to use your definition.
I’m not saying that, in principle, punishments are bad. However, if an individual does not think that the punishment is just, in no way should they be morally bligated to “accept” the punishment, ie, face it and not try to avoid it.
lezlers –
Like I said numerous times, I’m not sure about this, but I take this as an assumption because numerous posters did, and because this is somewhat supported by the cite, in which the officer speaks very unfavourably of the guy’s character.
And this, others and I argued over 3 pages, shouldn’t be.
Or by climbing out the window while in detention.
There is a difference between the interests of the individual and the interests of society here, obviously.
Nice debate tactic, that.
Enginerd –
Like I said earlier, I (and apparently, others) are debating under the assuption that had the guy been more apologetic, he would have been admitted, so his actual qualifications are not really under debate, especially given that we haven’t got enough information.
Ah!! My mistake!
Nice dodge, there. But it won’t wash.
Weren’t you the one that was bleating about “nonconstructive”?
What is so “nonconstructive” about AP courses, pray tell? Was this kid so “bored” by his “nonconstructive” AP classes that he just couldn’t…go…on? Poor little darling?
Please.
Nightime, you keep changing your argument. First, he shouldn’t have to go to school if he doesn’t want to, even though his college acceptance rode on it. Then, he shouldn’t have to answer to me (I’m still struggling to understand that one), then he did accept responsibility for his actions, now his grades aren’t as bad as people are saying? Which is it?
Well mic, considering that you’re refusing to answer my questions and instead are completely engrossed in your own little circular logic game, I’ll back out of the argument, because it really is pointless. I don’t know how I let myself get dragged in it again.
Have fun.
Someone’s been bleating in this thread, all right, but it wasn’t me.
I’ve never taken an AP course, I don’t know,(other than nerdgineer’s comment, but then some colleges are a lot like high school so it doesn’t mean a lot) and it’s obviously different from one school to another, anyway. I am honestly not sure if this significantly alters the situation. Maybe.
I never said the school should have to admit him.
I said he did not deserve your (or anyone’s) righteous anger because he occasionally avoided a hostile environment after 3 years of hard work, and instead worked on software.
I also said I couldn’t believe he wouldn’t promise to do better! Why would he not?
Just now doing the math for fun, I realized his grades weren’t nearly so bad as suspected. A C gives a 2.0, so a 2.6 in your last year after 3 years of 3.8’s isn’t so horrendous. I can understand now why he was surprised to have the rug pulled out from under him.
Backing out? For the third time, is it? See you soon.
Which questions?
What circular logic other than yours, which I’m not applying?
Well, we get a “maybe” from you. How amazing.
Well, are we going to explore this aspect of the story any further, or are you going to pretend it never existed?
And what about you, Nightime? Does this change anything? After all, he (presumably) voluntarily enrolled in these AP classes, which were more challenging than “regular” high school classes—they were more like college level classes. And he screwed up on them. Is this not significant, or is he still some poor misunderstood victim?
I honestly do not understand why anyone is arguing in this kid’s favor. As a teacher and as a parent, I know the best thing I can do for the children placed in my charge is to give them an understanding of consequences. I do not mind being held accountable, but the child has obligations as well.
Of course he was well within his rights to blow off the last year of classes. I am well within my rights to call my pricipal an idiot on television too. After that the school is well within their rights to fire me for insubordination, and in this case the school the kid had his heart set on is well within it’s right to refuse him admitance.
Honestly. I do not understand parents who sue the school when their child gets caught cheating, or when he gets a bad grade, or doesn’t get to be solo validictorian. Why would you participate bringing up someone you are not going to like in the end.
I never said he was a victim, or that the school should have to admit him.
I just said that I thought they should have admitted him.
The AP courses do show that it was probably not the pointlessness of school that caused him not to go, thus making him less sympathetic. We don’t really know why he decided to work on software to the detriment of his school work. Maybe school was a hostile environment.
But on the other hand, he didn’t exactly “blow off” his classes. He still got a 2.6 his final year (for comparison, a C gives a 2.0). I can see why he thought graduating on time, with a 3.5 GPA and a 1600 SAT, would be enough.
Hah! That’s a good question, furlibusea! Perhaps they see it as the best way to get them the heck out of their home?
What’s even more amazing to me is the, “you’re paying for it” view of the college education. There’re so many more costs to the education than just the cash the student contributes!
You know, since he failed a class, he must have had some good grades his last year to balance out to a 2.6.
Do we know which classes he did well in and which he did poorly? How do we know he did poorly in the AP classes?
I have nothing to add. As I see it now, we can’t really say more unless we’re familiar with the guy’s highschool/teachers. I’m not even familiar with AP courses.
furlibusea –
A good way to go around this is reading the thread. All the points that you raise have been raised already(most, more than once), aside from the point about the parents.
make that “raised and adressed”.
No I read the whole thread. The majority of the arguments seem to be that he shouldn’t be held accountable because school is boring and pointless, and there are better things he could be doing with his time. Some seem to think he is smart enough he shouldn’t have to be held to the standards his lowly classmates are. One person says because he doesn’t agree with the punishment he shouldn’t have to withstand it. (Boy would my daughter love to win on that arguement.) All of it is Bull.
Rosa Parks expected to be punished when she didn’t stand on that bus. The men who sat at the Woolworth lunch counter expected to be arrested. Courage is being willing to accept the results of your actions, not having mommy and daddy pony up for a lawyer to get you out of it.
Now that’s insightful.
I don’t recall anyone in the thread claiming that the guy was courageous. Nor, for that matter, was he protesting, so this analogy doesn’t prove much.
You are exaggerating how badly he did his senior year.
Since he failed one class, he had to average about a B in his other classes in order to keep his GPA at the point it ended at.
Haven’t you ever had one horrible class, with a hostile teacher? If not, you are lucky.