Having a 1600 on your SATs and a lawyer doesn't make you God.

Chiming in here:

As one who also found high school (all of it, not just senior year) pointless and unstimulating (with two exceptions, which I’ll cover later), I objected to busy work as well, and did as little homework as I could get away with, hoping to get by on my test grades.

But I did this will full knowledge that my grades would be “okay” instead of terrific. I knew I should have done homework and I didn’t do it. I expected to get lower grades as a result. It’s that whole cause and effect thing, you know?

The only worthwhile things I did in high school were my AP History class and my semester abroad. Perhaps I had an excellent teacher (I did), but I found the AP class to be extremely challenging and stimulating. Rather than have the students just answer every question in the chapter as homework, which my government teacher did the following year (totally pointless, as those questions can be answered by skimming the chapter for keywords, rather than actually reading it, causing you to miss material), the teacher handed out sheets of questions that picked out tiny details from the material. His policy was do them or not, it’s up to you, but you’re the one who has to take his tests, which were equally difficult, and which the questions would help prepare you for. Students in that class were not required to study per se, yet we all HAD to study. It’s the ONLY class in high school I studied for. If he failed to pass a course at that level, it was because he’d always skated by on his own knowledge before, and couldn’t bring himself to study the material. If he really was so smart that he didn’t need to work at it, he should have had no trouble acing the tests without doing the homework. In my experience, if you score 100% on all the tests but do none of the homework, you’ll still get a B (or b-). If that is, in fact, the case, then perhaps he should have brought copies of his tests or test scores to the interview to prove that the grading really was based on completion of pointless busy work. If he wasn’t getting 100% on the tests… perhaps the busy work would have helped.
(For the record, I rarely did those questions in my AP class, but I knew my lack of studying resulted in lower grades. I didn’t whine about low grades when I could have done something about it)

I think the school did the right thing in turning him away. It’s not as if they said, “You’ll never go to college…ever! BWAHAHAHAHAH!” They suggested he try again the following year after investing a year in proving that he was up to the challenge. There’s nothing wrong with spending a year at a j.c. There are still courses that will challenge him there, and he can use those grades as proof of his ability to perform up to expectations. In the end, all that matters is which school’s name is on the degree, not the amount of time you spent at that particular school. One year at a junior college will not materially affect his earning ability in the future. If he feels that the level of education at a j.c. does not match that which he would get at UNC, then he can choose to go the 5-year route, by doing a year at a j.c., then spending 4 years at UNC.

Besides, he really DOES need an indoctrination into the ways of the real world, before it’s too late. Perhaps two semesters sitting next to pregnant 19-year old waitresses in junior college will remind him of the benefits of conforming. Being nonconformist is only interesting when there is some perceivable benefit to not conforming. Any other time it’s just being a horse’s ass.

The long and the short of it is, he is clearly capable of performing up to standard. Even if he wanted to slip off a bit, he could have easily held up a B average for the year by making the slightest attempt at an effort. To do as poorly as he did indicates he just wasn’t trying. Having to wait one year to transfer into an institution which will probably take him if he shapes up just a bit is a perfectly reasonable punishment for blowing it off.

Great, he wanted to start a software company. He made it his priority. Well, when you set your priorities you know that the secondary one is likely to suffer. If getting into UNC was so bloody important, it would have been priority #1, and the software company priority #2. The real truth is that the software company was more FUN than school. He made his choice and he has to live with the results.

Oh, and because this is a thread about education, I simply cannot resist the urge to do this (sorry):

lezlers: renigged – you mean reneged
Shade: vertuous – virtuous
Incubus: rediculous – ridiculous
mic84: genuinly – genuinely
genie: enviroment – environment
lezlers: reniged – again, reneged
mic84: assignements (I should go easy on him, as English is apparently not his first language) – assignments

He did have a B average, except for one class that he failed outright.

If he hadn’t taken that class all would have been fine, apparently. And it obviously wasn’t a necessary class for graduation, since he did graduate.

I think it is sad that he gets his acceptance revoked because he got signed up for one bad class.

cite: from the article in the OP “In July, after seeing that Edmonson failed one class and got at least one D and several C’s on his final grade report, the admissions office rescinded its offer.”

That’s not a B-average for the year. Yes, he had a B-average cumulatively, but that year, he most certainly did not. And I don’t call one F, one D and several C’s “signing up for one bad class”. I can do better than that with only moderate effort, and I only had a 1250 SAT.

(Is it just me, or are SAT scores higher since they changed the test in 94? Seems like all the kids today have 1300+… my 1250 used to be impressive)

First things first:

::checks in the American Heritage Dictionary::
::checks in the OED::
:cool:
Perhaps you meant “busywork” :stuck_out_tongue:

About the rest of the post - an excellent analysis of HS word(though I would run from the History class you describe), but like I said, I don’t think it’s the admission office’s business to punish or indoctrinate applicants about the ways of the real word[sup]tm[/sup].

the HS work. Damn. And I did preview.

mic84

No. It is their job to choose one person for several hundred applicants to fill highly desired and contested positions at their school. They want kids who will come and do the work and stay for four or five years and get good grades. Good students reflect well on the University and bring in more in the way of money for research and grants. That makes more positions available for other students. A kid that is so burnt out on school that he doesn’t bother doing the work in the last semester, even knowing he could loose his chance at the university of his dreams is a bad bet. The kid from the waiting list who is phoning the recruiter daily to see if there is a slot yet winds up being a much better choice. There is now most certainly another kid packing for UNC because this kid didn’t think it was important do do the work.

The really sad thing is that this law suit is really likely to screw him up for far longer than the year getting his act together would have. There were so many better choices. He could spend his time making up the class he failed at a local college. He could do another stab at making a company. The money being spent on the lawyer could have financed a nice trip to Europe. He can do comunity service. There are any number of things that can help him get ready for University that could get him in in the fall of 2004. As it is now, who is going to let a kid that is likely to sue if he doesn’t get his way in their doors? Accadamia at that level is a small world, they all know each other. This kid has to be on the bullatin board of every admissions office in the country by now.

Even in the unlikely event the court overrules UNC, he is not going to last there. His name is out there. The proffessors know who he is. The other students know who he is. He will be watched, and his life will be made miserable. Someone someday will probably let him into a college now, but I am guessing we aren’t on the one year plan, and it isn’t UNC.

Well, if he had been non-white this wouldn’t have happened.

1 out of 3 is more like it. UNC isn’t Princeton, and even Princeton isn’t like this. Just FYI.

Good grades from the university don’t matter to the university - it can hand out grades that are as good as it wants. Good students in the sense of students who learn a lot, do matter of course.

I’d argue that he didn’t realize that he is going to lose a spot. It’s not like he thought, “Well, even if they withdraw my offer, I can sue them and get in, anyway”. We don’t know if he’s a bad bet or not. To be burnt out with respect to busywork has nothing to do with being burnt out with respect to actual learning. Of course, we don’t know much about his school, so we don’t know if it actually was mostly about busywork. Possibly it wasn’t, but a lot of schools are, in my experience.

As opposed to a kid who sues? Phoning the recruiter every day isn’t quite as hard.

Doing busywork because you have to isn’t a virtue, IMHO, so if that’s what it was about, I’m not convinced that it’s they it should be.

Last I checked, suing wasn’t a deadly sin, and while I think the lawsuit has no merit, I see no problem with a person trying to get into university by suing. It’s not like it’s illegal.

Do you have a cite for this?

You mean it can just hand 'em out to undeserving, lazy students, “just because”?

Why? If grades don’t count, (a manifestation of the level of learning a student has accomplished), why should students who “learn a lot” count?

If he’s that clueless, then he’s too stupid to get into the damned college anyway.

We know that the college obviously thought he was. And the college actually had contact with him.

You’re kidding, right?

Are you really this naïve?

Well, then you open a college and you allow students in who don’t want to do busywork.

This college already has its policies, and it doesn’t have to change them because some whining slackers think it’s “unfair.”

You really are naïve, aren’t you? :eek:

Well, yosemite, I belive the UNC very well could hand out grades “just because.” Of course, they’d endanger their accreditation, but then I guess they could go ahead and follow the lead of the student suing them!

Would someone be so kind as to:
[ul][li]Define busywork as it’s been used in this thread?[/li][li]Provide an example of the busywork that student was required to do?[/li]Prove that said “busywork” had no intrinsic value to his learning?[/ul]

For the most part no teacher is going to assign work just to assign work. They assign work because they believe there is some educational value to the exercise. They may be wrong but they have to grade the stuff.

That’s my opinion also, furlibusea. I was making an oblique comment about the opinion of some poster(s) here on the value of some of the schoolwork assigned.

Because students who “learn a lot” are the goal. Grades are secondary to this. If they don’t reflect learning well(for example, if, in addition to learning they measure willingness to do busywork), they don’t matter as much.

To get into college, obviously, on evidence of him not getting there. To learn in college - well, there’s that, and there’s 3.5GPA and a 1600 on the SAT. I’d not be inclined to say that he is acdemically inept.

From the first cite, he might not have been accepted based on his attitude during the interview. I don’t need to see him to tell that that’s wrong.

At the very least, he’d have to testify. Is it naive to assume that testifying is more stressful than asking about youy status on the waiting list on the phone? Well, to each their own.

Now we’re getting somewhere.

Do you understand the difference between “have to” and “should”? Anyway, it should change its policies not because someone thinks something of them, but because these policies are contrary to the goal of admitting the students who are likely to learn more while in college.

Do you dispute what I said? Because I didn’t say anything that’s factually incorrect.

Oh, maybe you think that despite the fact that he didn’t do much wrong by suing, he still will be remembered forever by all the profs at UNC and all the admission offices across the country?
Frankly, I’m just assuming the part about the admission offices. Hundreds of universities, hundreds of thousands of apllicants - it figures it’s a pretty impersonal process.
About the profs - I happen to know a couple of them, and I attended classes of quite a few - and I am not inclined to believe that they would care, and even if they did, allow themselves to be prejudiced.
Is judging from my own experience naive? I don’t know, but that’s pretty much the only experience I have.


here

No, I can’t, I don’t know him. I and others here rely on our personal HS experience, and on the student’s account of why he didn’t do well.
Earlier in the thread, I provided the integration by parts example.

I didnt argue otherwise

:smack: didn’t quite read it…

You are being deliberately unfair, yosemitebabe.

He had a B AVERAGE his final year except for one class that he failed.

A class which was not required for graduation.
So here is what we have - a kid with a 1600 SAT, who had ONE BAD CLASS out of his whole high school career, a class in which the teacher was hostile to him, and STILL graduated with a 3.5, and because of that he gets his acceptance revoked?

And we should applaud that?
Do the math yourself. One failed class would have brought his GPA below 3.5, unless he averaged a B in this rest of his classes senior year.
I can definitely understand why he was surprised to get his acceptance revoked. I wonder what class he failed. It wasn’t required, because he graduated. So if he had not taken that ONE CLASS he would have gotten in.

Yes, they should have accepted him.

Too cool, mic84; you may have finally admitted that it’s you who’s full of shit in this thread. You’re pulling stuff out of your ass and calling it a bouquet of roses. You finally admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

:dubious:

Nightime said

Um. No.

  • from the op article*

He must have done spectacularly well the first semester to have counteracted that.

Jeebus, nightime how many people have corrected you about his GPA? Why are you being deliberately obtuse?

Nobody.

I was the one that corrected the mistaken GPA’s that were being thrown around in this thread.

The fact remains that other than one failed class, he had a B average in his final year. If he got a C, he must have had an A to balance it out. C is a passing grade, by the way.

It is also true that the class he failed was not required for graduation, as he did graduate.

Would he have had his admission revoked if he had not taken that one hostile, non-required class? If he had not taken more classes than many of the people who were accepted?

I don’t think so.