Hawk,
I work in a hospital laboratory. We do post-vasectomy sperm counts nearly every day. Based on my experience and that of the techs who actually perform the test, your answer is incorrect. In a male who has had a vasectomy there are NO sperm cells. You may see them in the ejaculate for up to 6 weeks after the vasectomy because they’re still rattling around in the plumbing, but they are not coming from the testes. Approximately 1/4 inch of the vas is removed during the vasectomy and one or both remaining ends are tied off. Check with a urologist or pathologist if you need proof. BTW where did you hear that sperm cells were present?
If a man has had a vasectomy, can DNA be obtained from his semen?
In the original article, Hawk said that there were two common procedures used for a vasectomy, and that in one (the sealing method), some sperm can still leak through. What you’re describing is the second method, where the vas deferens is severed. Hawk never says that sperm can get through when this method is used.
But it was a useful addition to include those left over sperm rattling around in the plumbing.
Chronos,
Hawk said, “But it’s rare that a vasectomized male has no sperm whatsoever”. Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. The variations in how a vasectomy is performed involve the number of scrotal incisions and whether you use a clip or a suture. Regardless of which way you do it, the vas is cut and a section is removed. Sometimes both ends are sealed, sometimes the testicle side is left open. Either way the connection is gone and NO sperm are present in the ejaculate.
Just think about this for a second. Do you really think a urologist is going to run the risk of paying for an unwanted kid because a lucky sperm cell got through? Believe me. When they do one of these it’s thorough.
Ok. Let’s say a hypothetical male (ok, me) wanted to spare his wife the hormones, expense, and aggravation of the pill by having this done.
Some years later, though, he kinda wishes he could have a kid.
I’m not talking about a reversal, but for artificial insemination is it possible to extract sperm from the testes still? I assume they are still being produced?
Been browsing around on various Vasectomy FAQs. They seem to concur that in rare cases sperm still can get through, that’s why the hospitals do the sperm counts - for a repeat procedure if necessary.
http://www.minorprocedures.com/Vasectomy.htm
This FAQ gives a very low failure rate of 2 in 1000.
This FAQ lists the different methods of doing a vasectomy. Including merely using surgical clibs - no cutting. I don’t see this as being a big lawsuit risk since presumably they could warn the guys of a potentially higher failure rate. I would assume it is more reversible.
This one I just thought was neat because of the phrase “auto-immunity to sperm released into the tissues after the vasectomy” - hm. wonder if people who studiously avoid masturbation/sex for religious reasons have this same problem… Anyway, warns of potential problems with the procedure.
http://www.goldcrossmedical.com/androscreen/vasectomy.htm
You know, on second thought, this is making me queasy. Maybe I’ll pass on that operation. 
Ignore the one about no cutting. Didn’t read very carefully.
On the other hand, one site did mention experiments in simply blocking the tubes in some fashion. Didn’t say whether they had become common procedure.
Ok, granted it’s only a general reference, but it lists “sealing, cutting, or tying”.
http://www.mediconsult.com/mc/mcsite.nsf/condition/contraception~Educational+Material~ASOO-4K7RCS
Kyberneticist,
Thanks for the links you provided. You may find these others useful. This one covers the anti-sperm antibodies pretty well as well as describing the procedure.
http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/vasect.htm
This one covers the no-scalpel version and goes into more depth about exactly what is done to the vas.
http://www.ottawa-vas.com/option.htm
I’d like to hear Hawk weigh in on this as well.
Hmmm… perhaps my credibility needs to be established first.
I graduated with a BS in Pre-Medical Sciences in 1991. While in college, I worked in a pathology lab as a student lab assistant performing phlebotomy. Despite this low-rank position, I was trained in manual RBC count, WBC differentials, and urinalysis. After graduating, I decided to take a position at the local crime lab as a forensic biology specialist and have been there ever since. Whether I was performing the traditional protein biochemistry of the 70’s and 80’s or the new DNA analysis method of using capillary electrophoresis on short tandem repeat (STR) units, they both involve an advanced knowledge of semen, built on a firm understanding of the basics. And, as a man, I feel I have an intimately firm grasp on the subject, to boot.
Having said that, I’d like to point out the following:
First, I should establish that there may be a difference between the worlds of clinical and forensic lab analysis. For example, whereas clinical labs are concerned about the ability to detect a drug at all, they are mostly concerned about the therapeutic level or range that the drug is present in. In the biology section of forensic labs, we usually get a dried stain which may or may not have suffered some amount of degradation. Without knowing what the original volume of the sample was, we have no way of determining concentration. We can only report whether a compound was detected or not.
Second, I tend to qualify my statements to be absolutely true, so even if a stain has even a single sperm cell in it, one could report it as a semen stain. I don’t, however; I report that it “contains components of semen” because for all I know, it could have been mixed with something else like vaginal fluid, saliva, vinegar, lemon juice, etc. Thus, in your lab, if you found ONE SINGLE SPERM CELL, how would you have reported that? “No significant number of sperm cells observed”? Even our procedures may vary. In my lab, I have diluted the semen with saline (to thin the suspension and to prevent osmotic rupture of the spermatozoa), spun the whole ejaculate down, and then examined the pellet at the bottom of the tube. No fields. No cell counters. Straight and simple, is there even one single spermatozoon here?
Third, my knowledge of vasectomies is somewhat more historical, I’ll admit. After all, medical journals frequently discuss interesting cases and new techniques. Forensic science journals, however, usually discuss interesting cases and how roadblocks were surpassed to solve the case. This includes identifying a rapist from a stain containing seminal components, despite his having a vasectomy. However, these reports are somewhat old (even the publication process takes a year or so) and may not be as contemporary as the medical field. Despite this, I have asked my colleagues from around the country (as you may well imagine, crime labs are not common and so we tend to be well-connected to each other) and they all tell the same story: yes, you can still find sperm in the semen of a vasectomized male. My coworker, a former Special Agent with the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, said that they acquired a semen sample from another Special Agent who had a vasectomy in the late 80’s. Starting that year and every year afterwards until he retired, they examined a semen sample from him and found at least one sperm cell every year.
Having made my case there, I have several questions for you, LABRAT. You state:
“I work in a hospital laboratory. We do post-vasectomy sperm counts nearly every day. Based on my experience and that of the techs who actually perform the test, your answer is incorrect.”
This statement leads me to believe that (1) you used to perform these tests, and (2) you no longer perform them. Is this correct?
Further, by way of proof, I ask you this: “If this method is so foolproof, why are you performing post-vasectomy sperm counts at all?”
LABRAT also states:
“Approximately 1/4 inch of the vas is removed during the vasectomy and one or both remaining ends are tied off. Check with a urologist or pathologist if you need proof.”
This statement indicates that you are aware of one and only one procedure, when a little searching shows that there are several variations. Are you contending that all methods are the same?
Further, your statements as a whole suggest that your experiences should be universal, that they are typical in the medical community. That’s pretty ballsy, don’t you think?
In another posting, LABRAT adds:
“Hawk said, ‘But it’s rare that a vasectomized male has no sperm whatsoever’. Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. The variations in how a vasectomy is performed involve the number of scrotal incisions and whether you use a clip or a suture. Regardless of which way you do it, the vas is cut and a section is removed. Sometimes both ends are sealed, sometimes the testicle side is left open. Either way the connection is gone and NO sperm are present in the ejaculate. Just think about this for a second. Do you really think a urologist is going to run the risk of paying for an unwanted kid because a lucky sperm cell got through? Believe me. When they do one of these it’s thorough.”
To say that “the connection is gone” isn’t quite accurate, is it? After all, in instances where the penile side of the vas is sealed/tied/clipped, the other side is left open, and all those sperm are going somewhere, right? So where DO they go? Into the extracellular space, where they are presumably “reabsorbed”. Are you under the belief that the seal is so tight that a microscopic cell with mobility capabilities can’t get through? (And, to tell you the truth, a spermatozoon is a fraction of the size of an average cell because all it is is a nucleus with a propeller attached.) Further, with an average of 3,000 sperm cells being produced a second, are you saying that not even a single one will make it? Personally, I think sealing both ends would be more successful than other methods, and that cauterizing both ends would be even better.
But what does “reabsorbed” mean? As some of you have found out from searching, that’s not quite true. The body regards the spermatozoa, a cell type that the immune system normally does not see, as an invader and white blood cells come around and destroy them. Further, an immune response is initiated. Hence, successful reversals tend to be rare because antibodies impair a spermatozoon’s ability to swim properly.
It wasn’t my intent to spew off at such length but it just came naturally. The above comments are mine and mine alone. They are a combination of personal experience, personal communications with my colleagues, and published material. They are not endorsed by The Chicago Reader, The Straight Dope, or any of its affiliates. I was simply asked to weigh in and I did. I have no doubt, however, that I'm not as wrong as you think and you're not as right as you think.KnightHawk said:
First time I read that, I was trying to figure out how you would get a sperm from vinegar and lemon juice. Then I figured out you probably meant that the stain might not be fully semen, but have some other components.