He hit my kid. Someone talk me down.....

[Kalhoun]

@buttonjockey308

I don’t get the feeling that you or featherlou would let someone beat on one of your loved ones in your presence, but the facts of the matter are that the system is not designed to proactively protect citizens. It’s designed to react to a given situation and with punishment, incentivize the remainder of the populace NOT to do whatever it was that got the original offender punished in the first place. It’s imperfect at best, deadly wrong at worst. There are some times when it’s appropriate to step in and protect people you love, despite what the law says. To quote a very wise friend of mine.

“There are times when you do what’s right, and there are times you do what’s legal. Sometimes, those things meet.”

In another situation, I’d agree. But in this scenario, I just don’t see the threat.

[Kalhoun]

@Kalhoun

In another situation, I’d agree. But in this scenario, I just don’t see the threat.

…and by another situation, I mean more like something most battered women never experience. More like “movie” situations. It would take something so over-the-top in terms of a threat before I’d physically go after and try to erase someone that I can’t even come up with a scenario for it off the top of my head.

[Ludy]

@Kalhoun

…and by another situation, I mean more like something most battered women never experience. More like “movie” situations. It would take something so over-the-top in terms of a threat before I’d physically go after and try to erase someone that I can’t even come up with a scenario for it off the top of my head.

I tried not to be active in this thread because my opinions were already being represented but Kalhoun that statement is jaw on the floor unbelievable. Those “movie” situations you refer to don’t just happen. There are warning signs, and those warning signs can be very similar to what ** Mr. Bus Guy ** has described.

Why would anybody sit around, identify that this has potential to escalate to a horrible place, and wait for it to happen before they get out? And sometimes the only way to get out of it is for a support group to let him know that she is not alone. That she is not defenseless and that IMO is what ** Mr. Bus Guy ** was doing. He was being proactive to a bad situation before it became a horrible one. He very well might not be as big of a threat as the “movie” situations but why risk it.

[Kalhoun]

@Ludy

I tried not to be active in this thread because my opinions were already being represented but Kalhoun that statement is jaw on the floor unbelievable. Those “movie” situations you refer to don’t just happen. There are warning signs, and those warning signs can be very similar to what ** Mr. Bus Guy ** has described.

Why would anybody sit around, identify that this has potential to escalate to a horrible place, and wait for it to happen before they get out? And sometimes the only way to get out of it is for a support group to let him know that she is not alone. That she is not defenseless and that IMO is what ** Mr. Bus Guy ** was doing. He was being proactive to a bad situation before it became a horrible one. He very well might not be as big of a threat as the “movie” situations but why risk it.

I just want to understand: Are you saying the Bus Guy should have punched this guy out because the situation has the possibility of escalating? If we all lived our lives that way, no one would leave the house because they might get hit by a car.

[Ludy]

@Kalhoun

I just want to understand: Are you saying the Bus Guy should have punched this guy out because the situation has the possibility of escalating? If we all lived our lives that way, no one would leave the house because they might get hit by a car.

Ok you need to calm down a bit. Where did I say that anything about punching anybody? The only violence I talked about was the guy who punched Bus Guys daughter. I just said that sometimes it takes the knowledge that she has people there for her (don’t read it as someone that will beat him to a bloody pulp, read it as someone who will be thereto suppor her and if he goes after her will stand up for her). I don’t know the guy but I know the situation. The guy hit her twice so obviously he has no problems hitting people that are weaker and can’t fight back to the same degree. Another trait that goes hand in hand with that it that the guys can think that they have some sort of ownership over the women. They can be known to track them down to take back “what is theirs” because they think it is their right.

Nobody is beating anybody up.

Bus Guy is just letting him know that she has someone to protect her, (again don’t read protect as violent, it doesn’t have to be).

[buttonjockey308]

@Kalhoun

I just want to understand: Are you saying the Bus Guy should have punched this guy out because the situation has the possibility of escalating? If we all lived our lives that way, no one would leave the house because they might get hit by a car.

I don’t think that anyone is proposing (and I may be wrong) that Bus Guy put a beat down on this mope, I personally, suggested putting the fear of whoever this jackass prays to, right dead in his heart, to remind him how imprudent it would be to continue on the current course.

If he contacts her again, though. You’ve got to follow through.

[wring]

@buttonjockey308

If he contacts her again, though. You’ve got to follow through.

curious - follow through with what, exactly? legal action (including criminal complaint) or the aforementioned “beat down”. If it’s the aforementioned “beat down”, you realize that opens BusGuy to criminal prosecution, right? ok w/that? and of course, by the same token then it becomes "you beat **my ** kid, therefore BKB’s parents would presumably have the same options?

[CBomb22]

Personally, I think she has a better chance of getting run over on the way to class than she does of being assaulted by this guy again, but it would make her feel more safe if he had to sign in to a live body in order to enter the dorm.

Oh God, this is so wrong. Never be so sure about men who like to intimidate or hurt women. They feel as though they have been slighted and abused themselves and use that as an excuse to continue.

I was stalked by a guy I dated for about a year - the last three months only because I couldn’t get rid of him. To make a short story of it, I had protection orders that he violated and he eventually woud up with jail time and probation. He would show up in the middle of the night, pick the locks to my house, threaten my pets - and this was WITHOUT any physical abuse. Almost 2 years after his probationary period ended, he contacted me AGAIN.

These men always come up with a new excuse for their actions and will find a way to claim that they are the victim and are doing nothing wrong. The legal system is slow. Protection orders must be violated before the police can do anything.

Bus Guy and daughter are wise not to trust that he won’t show up again. It’s very likely that he will - with or without a threat from dad. Living in fear is no fun, but neither is being unsafe and assuming incorrectly.

Dad, make sure your daughter keeps her contact info off the internet. Mine is easily google-able because of my profession, and that’s how my psycho found me again.

[Kalhoun]

@CBomb22

Oh God, this is so wrong. Never be so sure about men who like to intimidate or hurt women. They feel as though they have been slighted and abused themselves and use that as an excuse to continue.

I was stalked by a guy I dated for about a year - the last three months only because I couldn’t get rid of him. To make a short story of it, I had protection orders that he violated and he eventually woud up with jail time and probation. He would show up in the middle of the night, pick the locks to my house, threaten my pets - and this was WITHOUT any physical abuse. Almost 2 years after his probationary period ended, he contacted me AGAIN.

These men always come up with a new excuse for their actions and will find a way to claim that they are the victim and are doing nothing wrong. The legal system is slow. Protection orders must be violated before the police can do anything.

Bus Guy and daughter are wise not to trust that he won’t show up again. It’s very likely that he will - with or without a threat from dad. Living in fear is no fun, but neither is being unsafe and assuming incorrectly.

Dad, make sure your daughter keeps her contact info off the internet. Mine is easily google-able because of my profession, and that’s how my psycho found me again.

Look, I’m not saying the really threatening guys aren’t out there. I’ve had beatings that make Bus Kid’s ordeal look like a vacation in the south of France. But I don’t see this particular guy as being “that” guy.

[CBomb22]

@Kalhoun

Look, I’m not saying the really threatening guys aren’t out there. I’ve had beatings that make Bus Kid’s ordeal look like a vacation in the south of France. But I don’t see this particular guy as being “that” guy.

One never does. I can’t type this on a board without sounding like a shithead, and I don’t mean it that way, but seriously, how do you know? God willing, he isn’t, but even Bus Kid and daughter don’t know that for sure. I didn’t expect mine to be “that type” either. All I’m saying is Bus Kid’s daughter needs to be smart - never ever trust anyone who’s caused you fear. You never know what someone is capable of - or how mentally imbalanced they may be - or how they will react when they feel that they’ve been “hurt.”

[Kalhoun]

@CBomb22

One never does. I can’t type this on a board without sounding like a shithead, and I don’t mean it that way, but seriously, how do you know? God willing, he isn’t, but even Bus Kid and daughter don’t know that for sure. I didn’t expect mine to be “that type” either. All I’m saying is Bus Kid’s daughter needs to be smart - never ever trust anyone who’s caused you fear. You never know what someone is capable of - or how mentally imbalanced they may be - or how they will react when they feel that they’ve been “hurt.”

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I also don’t believe that bad guys can’t change their evil ways. This guy might see that he was a jerk and redeem himself. I’m sure Bus Guy wouldn’t want to give him the chance if it were up to him, but he may end up a changed man. You’re right. You just don’t know.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@Mr Bus Guy

In 27 days, she has to drive back to Cleveland and stay alone, in her single room, on the ground floor of her dorm. As of now, she’s afraid to go back to that situation.

Damn right she should be! Is there any possibility she could get moved to a room on an upper floor? To a different dorm? You say the campus police are aware of the situation. Is the college administration also aware? Whatever their policies are on changing dorm assignments, I would think something like this would be a powerful argument for allowing her to move.

Oh, and I wouldn’t put much faith in students having to swipe-card their way in. It would be easy for him to attach himself to a group entering the dorm, maybe with camouflage of a couple of books in his hand, and get in with the old “Wasn’t he with you?” “No, I thought he was with you” dodge.

[CBomb22]

@wolf_meister

It seems that event #1 could easily trigger event #2. Unless our courts and legal system have become a bunch of uncaring, apathetic bastards, I don’t see how that E-Mail even remotely approaches the severity of the violence against the man’s daughter. When judged in that perspective, the E-Mail doesn’t seem to be any egregious violation of the law does it?

Bus Dude’s reaction has already been taken down in this thread (and I certainly can’t blame him for his reaction), but just for the record, sending threats of bodily harm through email do indeed constitute breaking the law - to the tune of a misdemeanor or a felony if serious and often enough. It is called harassment by communication in my state and is a jailable and heavily fined offense. The fact that a more serious event provoked the threat doesn’t make a difference. With email, obviously, you have more trouble defending yourself because there is a traceable record of your exact words.

[Rilchiam]

@Mr Bus Guy

The way I intended the e-mail, and if I re-read it, the way I still interpret it, is not to threaten imminent violence. What the intended message was: "I know you hit my kid, I don’t tolerate that. I know my kid is afraid of you, I hate that, and you for making her feel it. Stay away from her, don’t make her afraid of you anymore, don’t come near her OR, there will be some further contact with me. There may, oh hell, there is an implication that ‘further contact’ would include physical harm. Point it out to me though where I specifically said “I am coming to Cleveland yo cause you the same kind of hurt you put on my daughter.” Maybe that’s a shady legal distinction, but it’s one he’d have to prove, not that I’d have to disprove. In any case, the choice is put back into his hands. Abide by her wishes, and this all goes away, and any implied threats go with it.

Well, okay, let’s stop saying “threat”. Change it to a “warning” or “advice” that EBF had better stay away from your daughter or you’ll make him regret it.

But the thing is, you also told us, and your daughter (I think; forgive me if IDon’tRC) that if there is further contact, you’re not going to Cleveland to make good on your warning/advice. So if he does make further contact, and you don’t respond as you said you would, you’ll be telling him that you don’t mean what you say. You’ll have weakened your daughter’s defense.

In 27 days, she has to drive back to Cleveland and stay alone, in her single room, on the ground floor of her dorm. As of now, she’s afraid to go back to that situation. To me, as a father, that is an imminent threat, and I’ll take whatever steps she and I agree on to protect her from it. The police are already aware, and have a complaint ready to be signed. The campus police are aware too, and once they have a police report will notify him that he’s not welcome on campus and subject to arrest if he shows up. What is in that first e-mail was a first response, and I don’t want anyone here thinking that my ENTIRE response is to make vague physical threats on the jerkoff. But I am going to do what I can to protect her.

So what are you going to do? No, that’s not a rhetorical question. I’m not taunting you. But I really want to know what you have planned. Because unfortunately, you painted yourself into a corner with that email. You put yourself in a position where you have to do something if EBF makes further contact, otherwise he’ll get a double feeling of triumph: first, because he “got through” to your daughter, and second, because he defied you.

Also, just out of curiosity, have you ever met him? One of your posts mentioned “agreeing to meet him” after the first incident.

[Nature_s_Call]

So much has been said already, I only have a little to add…

First, FWIW, Mr. Bus Guy your intent was apparent to me, i.e. your carefully approaching but not actually threatening (although “worst nightmare” was a crack in that attempt). I fully endorse the spirit of your intention. You, no doubt, would write the e-mail a bit differently if you could go back. I don’t think, though, it will backfire. Bus Kid is lucky to have you on her team.

It may very well be (oh please oh please!) that jerkwad will stay away from fear. I wouldn’t count on it. Strong words from daddy will likely be noise in the background of the soup of other emotions he’s working through - at the centre of which lives your daughter. If he stays away, great, you’ve all won. If he does not stay away, it’s not because you weren’t forceful enough - it’s because, to his point of view, you are irrelevant - there is no way you can directly effect a victory.

This is not to paint jerkwad as an irredeemible serial basher. It is to say that if he persists depite the e-mail, his mind is set on fixing the problem, maybe even with the best intentions, but he’s ill-equipped to really fix the problem because he has issues that must be dealt with first (anger management, respect of himself and of women, whatever).

My advice: press charges! This has a real chance of causing jerkwad to confront his demons and maybe even come out of it a better person. It also causes any (og forbid) future incidents to be deemed a second offence and thus dealt with more severely.

To Mellivora capensis’s suggestion that calling the cops is but deferred violence: This is correct. One of the foundations of our civilized society is the state has the monopoly on violence. It is the (ideally) dispassionate dispensing of violence as needed that we can coerce those who disrupt society. Under every court order, every command from a cop is the implied, “Do this or we will physically restrain you, or hurt you if you resist - maybe kill you.” To point out this fact is not an argument against violence. Violence does have it’s place, and that place is usually not in the hands of a pissed off father, no matter how well intentioned he may be.

Best wishes, and keep up the good work!

[MacTech]

I see nothing wrong with Mr. Bus Guy’s response to the situation, his daughter was assaulted by her “boyfreind”, there’s the distinct possibility for the behavior to continue/escalate if not stopped

i fully agree with MBG’s response

i would also add the following reccomendations…

not sure what the legal issues are, but there are companies that make pepper spray kubatons, these devices can be used as a striking weapon (Kubaton), something to firm up the fist for increased punching damage (like using a roll of quarters) or by flipping off the safety and depressing the pivot, it can emit short bursts of pepper spray

i’d reccomend she carries a “one-two” punch, a pepper-spray kubaton, and a “tactical flashlight”, like the SureFire G2 Nitrolon or 6P, and install the optional 120 Lumen P61 lamp assembly, that way, if she’s approached by the scumbag in the evening and he has dark-adapted eyes, the “wall of light” from even a stock SureFire G2/6P with the P60 (65 Lumen) bulb is extremely disorienting

No, it’s probably not going to stop him dead in his tracks, but it will leave him dazed and disoriented (especially if BusKid learns to “strobe” the light) and may give her time to escape/get to a safer area

if scumbag is expecting BusKid to simply submit to his assaults because she may have done so in the past, it’ll catch him off guard if she fights back…

and if you truly want to be evil, you could buy her a Tigerlight, a tactical flashlight with built in pepper spray…

(yes, their demo videos are a little campy and over the top, but still fun, in a twisted, evil way, good to see perps getting what they have coming)

[Man_With_a_Cat]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

Damn right she should be! Is there any possibility she could get moved to a room on an upper floor? To a different dorm? You say the campus police are aware of the situation. Is the college administration also aware? Whatever their policies are on changing dorm assignments, I would think something like this would be a powerful argument for allowing her to move.

Oh, and I wouldn’t put much faith in students having to swipe-card their way in. It would be easy for him to attach himself to a group entering the dorm, maybe with camouflage of a couple of books in his hand, and get in with the old “Wasn’t he with you?” “No, I thought he was with you” dodge.

We’re talking this through right now. An upper room is a possibility. And it’s a mixed dorm, as I pointed out to her. Although the sexes are separated, it’s possible to go from one section to the other once you’re inside. Add to this that she met him through a mutual, male acquaintance that’s in the same building and it spells discomfort for me.

@Rilchiam

So what are you going to do? No, that’s not a rhetorical question. I’m not taunting you. But I really want to know what you have planned. Because unfortunately, you painted yourself into a corner with that email. You put yourself in a position where you have to do something if EBF makes further contact, otherwise he’ll get a double feeling of triumph: first, because he “got through” to your daughter, and second, because he defied you.

Also, just out of curiosity, have you ever met him? One of your posts mentioned “agreeing to meet him” after the first incident.

Obviously, if the fuck bothers her again, after being told by her, the police and myself to leave her alone, then there will be follow up. Most certainly I will be involved personally. Within the context of my original, AND second e-mails to him, he can expect that I will be there, and I will be there for my daughter. The second e-mail (sent at the suggestion of whole bean specifically says I’m not after violent retribution. Done right, I can make him regret having not listened, and get the message to him clearly that it’s not in his interest to continue bothering her. Truth is, I care less if HE understands I’m supporting her, than that SHE knows I am.

Yes, we have met the kid. She was seeing him since about last Christmas. He’s been at my house, gone with us to Indians games, dinners…Shit, he even met Grandma. He comes across as a pretty nice kid, not the brightest bulb on the tree, but no signs of this. But then, I don’t know that hitters have a secret handshake or anything like that to give them away to us.

[Man_With_a_Cat]

@MacTech

I see nothing wrong with Mr. Bus Guy’s response to the situation, his daughter was assaulted by her “boyfreind”, there’s the distinct possibility for the behavior to continue/escalate if not stopped

i fully agree with MBG’s response

i would also add the following reccomendations…

not sure what the legal issues are, but there are companies that make pepper spray kubatons, these devices can be used as a striking weapon (Kubaton), something to firm up the fist for increased punching damage (like using a roll of quarters) or by flipping off the safety and depressing the pivot, it can emit short bursts of pepper spray

i’d reccomend she carries a “one-two” punch, a pepper-spray kubaton, and a “tactical flashlight”, like the SureFire G2 Nitrolon or 6P, and install the optional 120 Lumen P61 lamp assembly, that way, if she’s approached by the scumbag in the evening and he has dark-adapted eyes, the “wall of light” from even a stock SureFire G2/6P with the P60 (65 Lumen) bulb is extremely disorienting

No, it’s probably not going to stop him dead in his tracks, but it will leave him dazed and disoriented (especially if BusKid learns to “strobe” the light) and may give her time to escape/get to a safer area

if scumbag is expecting BusKid to simply submit to his assaults because she may have done so in the past, it’ll catch him off guard if she fights back…

and if you truly want to be evil, you could buy her a Tigerlight, a tactical flashlight with built in pepper spray…

(yes, their demo videos are a little campy and over the top, but still fun, in a twisted, evil way, good to see perps getting what they have coming)

I know you meant well, but you’d have to know her.

This is the kid that won’t use the water bottle to teach the cat to stay out of the Christmas Tree. Look up “pacifist” in the dictionary, you’ll see her picture.

[MacTech]

@Mr Bus Guy

I know you meant well, but you’d have to know her.

This is the kid that won’t use the water bottle to teach the cat to stay out of the Christmas Tree. Look up “pacifist” in the dictionary, you’ll see her picture.

Ahh, that is frustrating, she needs to realize that she needs to be able to defend herself in any situation, it’s nice to be able to count on family members, but there are times when all she’ll have is herself

i would stress to her that using a tactical light/pepper spray combo is pacifistic, there is no (long term) physical injury, just momentary discomfort, the effects of pepper spray are temporary and fade after a short amount of time, generally leaving no permanent damage

using light as a defensive tool is completely nonviolent, all it does is disorient…

please, try to get her to take responsibility for herself, she sounds like a good kid, i hate it when scumbags take advantage of the innocent…

if i was married and had a kid, and that kid was assaulted like yours, i doubt i would have handled it as well as you have

[Anne_Neville]

@Nature's Call

My advice: press charges!

I’ll second that advice. This scumbag needs to be told, in no uncertain terms, that what he did is not acceptable. He needs to know that it’s so unacceptable that it’s the sort of thing people are arrested and sent to jail for doing.