Heads up - mass terrorist attack in India - developing

[mswas]

@sailor

I see, so the fact of Pakistan’s confrontation with India over Kashmir and other issues is just a cover, an excuse, for the expansion of Islam? It is not real at all? These guys are so devious!

Wasn’t it in this thread that someone posted the terrorist manifesto about wanting to reclaim parts of India on up into Russia? If not, I’ll see if I can find that for you.

[Magiver]

@RedFury

There’s really no point in responding to you, is there? For you appear to (mis)interpret not just what is written here but also distort any reference provided to make whatever point it is you are trying to make.

For instance, as the very subheading shows, the cited article highlights precisely the point sailor was making. To wit:

– my highlights.

Seriously, what in the world are you on about and what does it have to do with “debating”?

You do understand the difference between registering and voting don’t you? There was great violence involved in the voting process and nothing was tied to that.

[sailor]

@Magiver

The difference between Saddam’s regime and today’s government is that people risked their lives by not voting for him versus risking their lives TO vote for the current elected body. Today there is representation from all 3 major regions which did not exist under Saddam. This is the first time Iraqis have ever had a voice in their government. It couldn’t be any more legitimate.

Obama Faced With Iraq Detainee Human Rights Debacle

FYI

Obama Faced With Iraq Detainee Human Rights Debacle

When Barack Obama becomes president, he will inherit a human rights debacle in Iraq, now entering a phase in which the US appears ready to bulldoze thousands of its Iraqi prisoners over a legal cliff into Iraqi government prisons where they face the possibility of torture and execution.
…
The US began capturing Iraqis on a wholesale basis in 2003 with the invasion. World attention was focused on the fate of Iraqi detainees by the revelations in 2004 of detainee torture by US forces at Abu Ghraib prison. Because of Abu Ghraib, the US improved the physical conditions of detention, but detentions increased in 2007 as a fundamental tactic of the US military “surge.” Iraqis were, and continue to be, arrested on a daily basis, with those deemed not threatening set free.
…
In August 2008, a TF-134 spokesperson reported that approximately 80 percent of the detainees were Sunni. The larger proportion of Sunni captives may result from greater resistance to the occupation in the Sunni community, but it is likely also the result of government forces being under the control of the Shia-dominated government.
…
Iraqi detainees in the US prisons are being held without charges, without access to lawyers and without appearance before any judicial body - all violations of international law. This has been a continuing concern of the United Nations (UN) and international human rights groups, but totally ignored by the US and the Iraqi occupation government.

For example, a human rights report of the UN Assistance Mission to Iraq (UNAMI) released December 2, 2008, said that the agency continues to be concerned about the imprisonment of detainees by US forces "without judicial review of their cases" as well as about "administrative review procedures that do not fulfill the requirement to grant detainees due process in accordance with internationally recognized norms." A UNAMI report in 2007 made the identical point.

A 2006 Amnesty International (AI) report, reflecting the concerns of numerous human rights groups, said: "Since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 tens of thousands of people have been detained by foreign forces, mainly the US forces, without being tried and without the right to challenge their detention before a judicial body." AI made a similar observation in a November 28, 2008, statement of concern about transfer of Iraqi detainees from US to Iraqi custody.

In October 2008, a spokesperson for TF-134 said in an e-mail: "There is no place for legal representation in the THREAT BASED system that we operate."

Now it appears, based on a November 23, 2008, report from the Associated Press (AP), that **the vast majority of detainees are also being held without any hard evidence**. 

…
The UNAMI report noted that trials in the flawed Iraqi court system “are increasingly leading to the imposition of the death penalty.”

The Iraqi courts are not able to operate freely, Ms. Parker said, in part because judges and lawyers are often under intense political pressure and even fear for their lives, with the division between Sunni and Shia a major factor.

…
The Iraqi Lawyers Association reported in 2007 that at least 210 lawyers and judges have been killed since the invasion; that, according to IRIN News.org, hundreds of legal workers had left the country because of threats and persecution

Read the whole long article. Iraq is a country without rule of law where thousands of people are in prison without any rights and where hundreds of thousands have fled the country out of fear. That is what Iraq today is. Not a rosy fucking democracy.

[Magiver]

@sailor

That is what Iraq today is. Not a rosy fucking democracy.

They’ve had a civil war, what’s your point?

[sailor]

My point is that Iraq is a hellhole not a fucking rosy “democracy” as some want to paint it. Plus that this situation was directly caused by the American invasion. And that America continues to be responsible for extremely serious human rights violations in Iraq. Read the article. It is appalling.

[RedFury]

@Magiver

They’ve had a civil war, what’s your point?

No. What they had was an ethnic cleansing campaign brought about by the chaos provoked by the imperialistic greed of the elected US Government and the ensuing illegal and immoral invasion.

Did you help put them in power?

[Rune]

Indian police interrogators are preparing to administer a “truth serum” on the sole Islamic militant captured during last week’s terror attacks in Mumbai to settle once and for all the question of where he is from.

Mumbai Police to Use ‘Truth Serum’ on Captured Terrorist

• truth serum. hmm… Sounds like something from a cheap spy-movie. I wonder how effective that is.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Rune

Mumbai Police to Use ‘Truth Serum’ on Captured Terrorist

• truth serum. hmm… Sounds like something from a cheap spy-movie. I wonder how effective that is.

The KGB and CBI (Indian intelligence bureau) used them quite a bit back in the day- mostly sodium thiopental and temazepam. They’re effective in making a subject talk, but there’s not much evidence that they make subjects truthful.

[Magiver]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

The KGB and CBI (Indian intelligence bureau) used them quite a bit back in the day- mostly sodium thiopental and temazepam. They’re effective in making a subject talk, but there’s not much evidence that they make subjects truthful.

You can monitor brain activity that indicates visual recognition so it’s really just a matter of getting some cooperation from the subject.

[Magiver]

@sailor

My point is that Iraq is a hellhole not a fucking rosy “democracy” as some want to paint it. Plus that this situation was directly caused by the American invasion. And that America continues to be responsible for extremely serious human rights violations in Iraq. Read the article. It is appalling.

I read the article and I don’t pretend to think everything is perfect. This is a region that is hundred’s of years behind the evolutionary curve of social development. It’s stuck in an Islamic version of the Spanish Inquisition. In the case of Iraq, there are multiple factions of the one true religion of peace and without some serious reform it will never change.

Prior to the 2nd Gulf War Iraq was hardly the garden of Eden. Saddam was a murderous dictator. The United States had become a defacto protectorate with it’s 2 no-fly zones.