Health Fuckin' SCARE System

Motherfucker.

I’m speechless.

This week has been sheer hell.

I’m speechless.

The more I find out, the more speechless I am.

I’m seriously considering a malpractice lawsuit!!!~~!!!ff

WHAT THE HELL WERE THESE FUCKING DOCTORS THINKING!!!~

Okay, I’m drunk. And a little incoherent. And I can’t really be specific right now. But I need to type this. I’m just sick over what has happened to someone I love very dearly who could have died because some motherfucker violated the Hippocratic Oath. You know. That lil’ statement that doctors swear to that basically says: “Do no harm.”
[sigh]

If them terrorists decide to introduce some bioshit over here, we are all seriously fucked. I mean game over. Because the health scare system is messed up. Don’t nobody know what’s goin’ on. Don’t nobody talk to nobody else.

[sigh]

There’s somethin’ to the black folk sayin’: “You go to the hospital to die.”

Feel free to share your own health scare stories. I need to go pass out. Or somethin’.

This is hardly what you’re on about, but I’ll share it anyway.

I was at the clinic today. Nurse-type person escorts me into the exam room, takes my blood pressure, and asks me what the nature of my problem is.

“I need to get a referral to a dermatologist. See, I have moles here and here on my face, and this other one on the back of my neck, and I’m worried about this thing on my nose. My dad had a cancerous mole taken off his face a while back*, so…y’know.”

“Okay…the doctor will be with you in a moment.”

Doc walks in. “Okay, what brings you in here?”

“Well…what did your assistant tell you?”

I swear, I did not say that in a snippy way; I just wondered if, indeed, there was any communication between the RN** and the MD, in which case, I didn’t want to risk contradiction. But just for a second, the doctor drew herself, and her eyebrows, up in a way that implied that she couldn’t believe I had the sheer gall to respond in that way. They really don’t like you to ask them anything, do they?

*Ten years ago. But no one has to know that; I don’t want to leave myself open to a lecture about “Why didn’t you get yours lanced right away, hm? If there’s a history of cancer in your family…tut tut…”

**Are they RNs, the people who do the preliminaries? Or do they have another title?

Well, some of them are RN’s, some may be CNA’s, some may be PA’s, some may have other nursing degrees. Each office, and possibly each doctor within a particular office, has their own preferences as to the education level of the people who take your vitals.

(And RN isn’t a title, it’s a degree, like MD or PhD.)

I can’t answer why that doctor did that, but I know that I always ask the patient why they are there when I enter the room because often after you talk to them for a bit the reason they are there isn’t what the nurse/other assistant had written down on the chart. In your case, you were at the doctor’s office for a straightfoward reason – a referral to a dermatologist. For many patients, they present with less well-defined reasons and it is hard for any one to summarize those on a health summary sheet.

Personally, how I would have handled the situation you mentioned would to have, after I had introduced myself and asked how you were, said something along the lines of, “I see that you are wanting to see a dermatologist about some spots. Tell me what has been going on with them.”

Also, you would be surprised at the number of times patients’ stories change from talking from one healthcare provider to another. Only rarely is this something patients do consciously (although it is easy to get upset/embarrassed when what you have just told the attending on rounds is the direct opposite of what the patient tells the attending). Patients are often able to tell their stories better and remember more details the more often they are questioned. There are also some patients who may tell the nurse checking them in that they are there for ‘x’ reason but really they are there for ‘y’. This seems to be particularly common when patients are presenting with some problem related to sexual problems or depression.

Anyway, I’m one of the first to admit that the health care system needs lots of work, particularly the public hospitals. I’ve been amazed during my third year at just how many silly hoops there are for patients and their providers to jump through.

Celestina, now that you’re sober, can you give us the specifics?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by clipper *
I can’t answer why that doctor did that, but I know that I always ask the patient why they are there when I enter the room because often after you talk to them for a bit the reason they are there isn’t what the nurse/other assistant had written down on the chart.

See, that’s the projection I was making! I didn’t know what the RN, might have written down, and it occurred to me, in that split second before I spoke, that she might have just put down “suspects skin cancer” and left it at that.

I gotta stop thinking before I speak.

Or maybe I gotta stop stressing about the spot on my nose. The fact is, I’ve been nervous ever since Mr. Rilch said, “Well, if it’s red, technically it is cancer.”

**

And that’s what I had been expecting. As I said, my tone was not snippy (at least I don’t think it was. You know, no one really knows what they sound like. And someone did tell me once that I have “a certain tone” to my voice.), but the phrasing might have come off that way. Like, “Well, you’re the doctor; you’re supposed to know!” or “I told the assistant; jeez, what kind of place do you guys run here!”

**

Good point.

…the one time I don’t preview…

Small nitpick (is that redundant?): RN is a certification, not a degree, earned by nurses with Associates degrees and up who pass the NCLEX exam. It’s like a CPA or MSE.

Morelin’s already posted her rant, but I still can’t believe those fucking asshats cut off her heart pills. What fucksticks.

I’ll share some of mine. I have allergies, if you can imagine that. Every now and then, my right arm gets a nasty red rash that’s contact/atopic dermatitis. A couple days of corticosteroids, whether pills or salve, and I’m fine. So I got a flare up and went in to the doctor.

I fill out the form at the clinic. Next to Medicine Allergies, I put “Penecillin”. When Fuckstick Doctor #1 asks me three times in the course of the appointment whether I’m allergic to penecillin, I say yes. Now, antibiotics for allergies? What the fuck? That’s what I said. And then he asks me again as he’s writing the prescription if I’m allergic to penecillin. I say, “Yes.”

I walk out with a prescription for penecillin. For my allergies.

Recently, my prescription for the anti-rash meds ran out, so I had to go to the doctor. I just wanted a new prescription, but the doc wanted to have the “diet talk”. She was absolutely desperate to find something wrong with the way I eat. I almost felt bad, cause I kept shooting her down. Here’s a rough presentation of that conversation.

Doc: So, we need to talk about what you eat. Tell me what you eat for breakfast.
GMR: Oh, I usually skip breakfast. If I don’t, a nice bowl of frosted miniwheats or something similar (mmm, frostedminiwheats!)…
Doc: With milk?
GMR: Of course.
Doc: Are you using whole milk? Cause that’s got all kinds of fat right there and…
GMR: Um, no, soymilk.
Doc:…(this is a stunned silence)…Oh…Well, umm, how about lunch?
GMR: A bagel with some cream cheese, usually whole wheat, but I like to shake things…
Doc: Cream cheese! Well, there’s a whole bunch of fat right there!
GMR: Low fat cream cheese?
Doc: …Ah. I see. Well, what’s for dinner?
GMR: Usually some pasta with a little bit of cheese on top for flavor…
Doc: And red meat? Red meat’s got a lot of fat…
GMR: Noooo, I don’t eat meat much. (This has changed some).
Doc: Ah. Well, what about soda?
GMR: Oh yea, I have 2 or 3 a day, but it’s…
Doc: Well, you should cut that out, lotsa calories in it
GMR: Diet soda? No calories?
Doc: …Oh. And snacks? Potato chips, that kinda thing?
GMR: Nah, usually a granola bar or some pretzels. Maybe some Wheat Thins.

This went on for a while longer. It was kinda sad to see her grasping at straws. And then…

Doc: I think you may have diabetes
GMR: What?! Why do you say that?
Doc: Well you’ve got this rash…
GMR: It’s an allergy!
Doc: So do you drink a lot?
GMR: Yes, but…
Doc: That’s another of the symptoms.
GMR: Ahem. I drink a lot because my dermatologist suggested staying hydrated would help keep my skin from getting dry and itchy.
Doc: But still, you DO drink a lot. You need to come in, so we can do a bunch of tests…

I am not a member of any of the medical profession, but between my own and my family’s various ailments I’ve been in a lot of doctors’ offices and a lot of hospitals. What a previous poster said is absolutely true. Every single person you meet will ask you what you are there for and if you have any allergies, for very good reasons. You might have forgotten to tell someone. The previous person might have written it down incorrectly. You might add another detail. In Rilchiam’s experience, a single sentence needed to be repeated; takes less time to do it than to complain.

And GMRyujin, why did you leave with the prescription for Penicillin – a substance you are allergic to and that you know won’t treat your allergies? People need to be responsible for their own care to some extent as well.

I do not understand why people tolerate doctors that don’t treat them properly, in any sense of the word, unless they are restricted to a health system that does not permit them to choose doctors, in which case my sincere sympathies.

I agree that there are some people in health care who don’t belong there. I had an experience (in a very good hospital, BTW) where a nurse tried to insist that I take a pill that I knew was not what my doctor had ordered. She tried to browbeat me into it, but I steadfastly refused. It was not dangerous, but would not have been effective, either. Had I been unable to be alert to this, and had it been a dangerous thing, Lord knows what would have happened. After I was home, I wrote a strong letter to the head of the hospital and everyone else I could think of.

I wasn’t complaining. I was squirming at the idea that I might have offended the doctor without meaning to. And it wasn’t a “single sentence”.

I have a hard time explaining stuff succinctly. I feel the need to include every detail and give backstory, and some people take it the wrong way, like “What is she babbling about?”. I didn’t want to do that in this case, so I asked what the assistant might have said in order to know where I should start.

Heheh. This reminds me of an experience my mom had.

My mom is a Type 1 (juvenile) diabetic, and has been since she was a teenager. As you will see in a second, diabetes runs rampant in my family. Some years back, she went to see the doctor for a specific diabetes-related issue. In the course of some general questions, the doctor asked about a family history of diabetes. My mom said yes, she had six aunts and uncles with the disease, and one of her sisters had it as well. The doctor asked some more questions about this, and finally came up with the stunner:

“Ma’am, have you ever considered that you might be diabetic?”

Gah!

Because he would NOT listen. I kept saying, “No, I’m allergic to this,” and he’d go “No, no it’s fine, take it, you’ll be fine.”

GMRyujin–did the doctor ask you what happened when you took PCN? I only ask because a large percentage (a majority, I’m told) of people who say they’re allergic to PCN are, in fact, not. Many of them will describe something that happened after they took PCN that sounds nothing at all like an allergic reaction, and probably had nothing to do with the PCN. That probably isn’t the case with you, and even so, it doesn’t excuse the doctor–when someone tells me he’s allergic to PCN, and there is another drug available that I can use, I’ll use it.

He obviously thought he was treating cellulitis–which, from your description, would be reasonable. (That’s also why he was talking diabetes, I imagine.) If so, steroids would be exactly the wrong thing to prescribe, and you would need an antibiotic. It’s always hard when the patient’s idea of the cause of a particular symptom differs from the doctor’s, but the doctor usually has to go with his own judgement–after all, it is his opinion the patient is paying for.

I don’t want to sound like I’m defending your doctor–there’s no excuse for not listening to a patient, and very little excuse for leaving the patient with the impression that you weren’t listening.

As for why I’ll ask the patient what brought him or her in, even though the nurse already asked, there are many reasons:

–We are taught to develop a fairly standard interviewing technique, and it usually starts by eliciting a chief complaint.

–I like to hear it in the patient’s own words. I can tell quite a bit from the way a patient tells me what brought him in.

–The primary function of the nurse asking you what brings you in is for triage. If you tell her that it’s a crushing pain in your chest and a cold sweat that came on at rest 30 minutes ago and hasn’t gone away, I expect her to get me out of whatever room I’m in.

–The nurse’s interpretation may not be my impression. If you say you have “pain right here”, putting your hand over your lower chest/upper abdomen, she might write down “abdominal pain”, but when I start asking about it, it might sound like fairly typical angina. If I come in and say, “So tell me about this pain in your abdomen,” it colors both your description and my interpretation.

–If I didn’t ask, then a lot of patients would complain–“he doesn’t do anything. His nurse asks all the questions, and he just blows in and writes a prescription. $70 for that!” I’m screwed either way.

All this said, there is a large amount of bad medical care being provided out there, and I’ve provided some of it myself. (Hey, I’m an intern. I’m less incompetent every single day.) Hell, medical care is frustrating when everything goes well. Some of us are trying, though.

Dr. J

No, he didn’t. It happened when I was a kid (2-3 yo) and I got a red rash of some kind, or so my mom has told me. The doctor told her it was an allergic reaction.

Folliculitis (sp?), if I recall. And it was a different doctor talking diabetes, sorry if I didn’t make that clear. FTR, the dermatologist I went to shortly after I visited him looked at her nurse, looked at me, and said, “Folliculitis? How in the world did he get THAT?”

I usually wind up giving a more specific description to the doc when they come in, cause I’ve always thought the nurse was there to give him/her a basic idea of the symptoms and prepare him/her, rather than the whole nine.

This may or may not have any bearing on your case, but:

There is a childhood disease called Roseola, which is only known to strike children of 2 or under. The first symptom is a high fever. About a day later a rash appears. Then both symptoms vanish and the child is very irritable for about a day (nobody knows why, since the child is too young to explain). A frequent occurrence is that a doctor prescribes an antibiotic like penicillin to treat whatever may be causing the fever. Then the rash occurs and the assumption is that it is a reaction to the drug. The drug is discontinued and the rash goes away. All of this would have happened anyway if no meds were given. It can lead to a misdiagnosis of penicillin allergy. Yet another reason to resist the all-to-prevalent attitude of giving antibiotics too often and too quickly. The pediatrician my kids had was very careful about this. When one of mine came down with a high fever, the MD noticed slight redness in one ear that could have been an ear infection (she had a lot of those). He explained the roseola thing, and gave us a PCN prescription, but cautioned me to wait until the next day before starting it. Sure enough, the next day the fever went away and the rash broke out. Weird.

However, since there are many alternatives to PCN, and the consequences of triggering an allergic attack are at the least very annoying, I agree that it was strange of the MD to insist on PCN. Doctors who don’t listen and don’t communicate are very frustrating.

It’s certainly possible, but like I said, I was three when it happened. The reason I continued, once it was clear he wasn’t listening, was that I figured I could consult with the pharmacist…who was aghast and called back to put me on different antibiotics. Sulfas? That sounds right.

Not that it did any good, of course, since it was allergies.

I wonder why the doctor listened to the pharmacist and not to you? Hmmm. Did you eventually go to another doctor for the allergies?

Yea, I’d gone in to get a referral to a dermatologist, because the previous 2 GPs didn’t listen either, so I kept getting nothing that worked. I’d gone in about a year earlier, gotten a 5 day dose pack of prednisone and it cleared right up. And it was right there in my records, but that’s not what they wanted to hear. Same symptoms and everything. So I had to suffer for two weeks until I could get into the dermatologist.

Went to the dermatologist and got a cortisone injection to stop the itching right away and she gave me some topical goo for the rash, cleared it up in a few days.

Bad luck with the GPs. I can understand that they would not want to prescribe the steroid unless it’s really necessary, but it sure sounds like in your case it was. Glad you got helped. Sounds like you’re on one of those health plans where you can’t go to a specialist without a referral – what a waste when you already know what you need.