Heartless bitch or "normal" teen?

The BBQ Pit
21

For what it’s worth, she will probably regret being so nasty when she has grown a few years.

As far as the tongue ring goes, very few, if any, reputable houses will pierce a person under 16, even with parental permission. By all means check out the link Hastur provided, it is the end-all and be-all of body modification information.

If she is sufficiently determined, she may sneak out and get her tongue done at a non-reputable place which doesn’t ask for ID. On the pro side, tongue rings can be taken out and heal quite quickly (several of my friends as evidence). On the con side, if she has gone to a shady piercing parlor, insist that she get tested for everything (reputable parlors autoclave, so this is not necessary)! HIV, hepatitis, the works. I don’t mean to scare you, because the chances are EXTREMELY low even if the place isn’t clean, but the more you know, and the sooner, the better. It also has the side effect of scaring the shit out of her.

22

Geesh - it’s funny, at one time I wanted to get my eyebrow pierced. I thought it was fairly normal, but my Mom flipped out about it. Since I was 24 at the time and not too attached to the idea, I went with her wishes. Now that piercings are “over” (at least around here) I’m glad I didn’t make an issue out of it.

I think your reaction was pretty normal. No matter what you may think of piercings, 15 is awfully young to be doing that, if you ask me. Tongue piercings require a special level of care (mouthwash after everything you eat) that your daughter may or may not be capable of - depends on her maturity level. Also, the main reason I know of for tongue piercings - and Hastur, can you back me up here? - is for, shall we say, increased ability to give one’s lovers oral stimulation. Again, 15 seems a little young for that to be necessary. Piercing is more easily reversed than a tattoo, but 15 seems awfully young.

As for that original question - manipulative bitch or “normal” teen - perhaps the “or” is unnecessary - ha ha…but really, teens need to act out their defiance, but your daughter will thank you later if you prevent her from doing any permanent stuff until she’s older. In my day all it took was a trip to Salvation Army for some funky clothes, but I guess things have changed since 10 years ago.

I’ll bet that even though she may not show it, her cruelty while you were crying was probably a cover. I think I have made my Mom cry on two occasions, and both times I probably reacted (what looked like) insensitively to the outside world while on the inside I was thinking “Shit! What the hell did I do! I’m horrible!” When she said you were just trying to make her feel like shit, what that means is she really did feel like shit, so she can’t be that heartless.

I’ll bet if you went along with her and said you wanted to get your tongue pierced too it would be about 15 seconds before she reconsidered.

23

My darling baby left two more messages for me before I got a chance to call her at her dad’s. She apologized for her behavior, asked if I was still upset and explained how very much she wanted a piercing. I said I would love her no matter how she behaved, but I was still hurt and upset with her, although I would get over it. She asked if it would be okay to get her nose pierced before Thursday (the last day of school). I said I was still upset with her and wasn’t feeling like doing her any favors this week, that we would talk about things she wanted from me next week. The whining soon escalated and I said I couldn’t talk to her right now. She ended the conversation by shouting “Fuck you” and hanging up. Not my idea of a great apology.

24

Being halfway between “heartless bitch” and “mother of heartless bitch”, I’d have to say it sounds pretty normal.

She’s trying to establish herself as an individual and also pull away from you. I read somewhere that children start off so helpless so you will have fallen in love with them by the time they’re two. And once they turn 15, they start acting like assholes so you’ll be more than ready for them to go to college. (So it wasn’t scientific, but it seems true!)

FWIW, the worst thing my mother ever said to me was “Oh Honey, I’m so disappointed in you,” while she was crying. At the time I didn’t care for shit but now it haunts me. My Mom thinks it’s the funniest thing in the world that it causes me so much pain so long after the fact. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I’d be more concerned with the blowjob factor of the tongue piercing. [sub]If you didn’t know about that connotation, I’m very sorry.[/sub]

25

That is a gross generalization. It depends on the person and how far back their tongue piercing is. Mine is towards the middle of my tongue. It is rare for me to play with my barbell with my teeth. That isn’t the purpose for it.

Always? I’m proof that always is incorrect. And if I kept a breathmint at the place my piercing is at, it would never get to the front teeth, trust me.

26

This is very telling. It seems her biggest reason for the piercing is to show her friends. (Hopefully, this helps to put the blowjob fears further back in the cerebellum.) I imagine that she’ll tell her friends that you are one heartless bitch and that she’s gonna get her toungue pierced over the summer. Then, she’ll be pissed at you for about a week after school lets out and then she’ll be over it. I hope so, at least.

27

Here’s my take: She knew she had acted poorly and was honestly sorry. However, she figured that if she simply apologized, she could then ask a further favor. When that plan went awry, she did what many teenagers have done through the ages - lash out at the parent, usually with a purposely shocking epithet.

28

Stepping back and looking at this, I can see a little better and it doesn’t hurt quite so much. The whole thing escalated so quickly, it was shocking. No argument I had was being accepted or even considered. But now, as I feel less emotionally beaten up, I’m feeling a mixture of angry and amused, but what to do?

29

Then I will rephrase for the hyperbole impaired. Of the 600 or so students I taught, those with tongue piercings close enough to the front of their tongues to chew on, chewed on them. Admittedly, many of said students had new piercings; however, even those that got them done immediately after moving out of their parents’ homes were still chewing on them during finals.

And if “it is rare” for you “to play with [your] barbell with [your] teeth,” then why would a breathmint at the same place never get to the front teeth? “Rare,” after all, isn’t “never.”

The only gross part about the generalization, by the way, is seeing half of someone’s tongue hanging from between their front teeth because they’ve introduced a foreign object into their body and can’t get used to it (in the interest of fair disclosure, I have my left ear pierced [I’m male], but I put this on the same level as constant hair twisting on the annoyance scale).

30

Wait a minute – she shouted “fuck you!” at her mother? Gott in Himmel, if I ever said such a thing to my mom I would have had to take out a loan to pay for the ensuing dental work.

I think you need to have a talk with your daughter about respect, and how you both owe it to each other to be respectful regardless of the circumstances. You might also remind her that being hurt by her or angry at her does not incline you to do her any favors. I admit I don’t have any kids, but if I did I’d tell my daughter that we can discuss the issue of piercing again once she’s done being grounded for swearing at me, but that the answer is probably still going to be “no.”

I’m sure your daughter thinks you exist just to ruin her fun – after all, the world does revolve around her. (It did me when I was fifteen and, yes, I was a hellacious honkin’ bitch to my parents, my mom in particular). But I think at fifteen she’s old enough to understand cause and effect, including that if she acts like a brat and a child she’ll be treated like a brat and a child.

31

Well, for me the most hopeful sign in this piercing fad is how quickly it has gone mainstream. Within a few years piercings have gone from wacky nutty cuckoo fringe to food court cubicle SUV mainstream.

Thank goodness! Piercings will soon be sooooooo uncool and only dorks will have them. Since I personally can’t stand them, I’m pretty pleased by this.

32

I, like Jodi, tend to wince at the nice little “Fuck you” part…my mother would hit me so damn hard…

I have a dirty secret to share. I’m 15 (for not much longer) and I’m a girl with a mom whom I butt heads with a lot.

Dispensing advice for me would be ludicrous…I can only wish you much luck and patience. Things will work out, don’t worry.

33

IIRC, “heartless bitch” and “normal teen” are pretty much synonymous. What I considered to be normal teenage behavior, my mom saw as hell on wheels; neither of us has quite yet forgiven each other for our differing viewpoints, and it’s been nearly a decade.

One bit of advice right off: DO grow thicker skin. Your daughter will on purpose say things intended to hurt your feelings, because, let’s face it, you’re raining on what she sees as her parade. If you understand and accept that she is trying to hurt you, and don’t let her, you will be better off. Just remember YOU are the parent and SHE is the child, and insist, insist, insist that she respect you.

I would never have dared to say “Fuck you” to my mother, even over the phone because frankly, I was scared of her. Hell, I wouldn’t say it now, because I’m still scared of her. But that sort of exchange should be forbidden when dealing with a parent, because it is a respect issue. I trust you would never say it to her, either.

You may want to try negotiating. When your daughter gets home, talk about why she needs the tongue/whatever piercing, and why you need her not to have it. And whoever mentioned above that reputable places won’t pierce regardless of consent for those under 18 is right – tell her if she wants it when she’s old enough to have it done herself, then she can do it. See if you can compromise for now and come up with something that is acceptable to you both. Example – maybe if she dyed her hair blue that would be okay (obvious “rebellion” but not injurious to tissues, somewhat embarrassing, and it will grow back eventually). It might be a good idea to include dad in this, too. Discuss with him prior to the moment; you don’t want him to be unprepared to be in the United Parent Front, or worse, to actively take her side.

Another possibly helpful thought: DON’T let her behavior embarrass you. What she chooses to do at this stage in her life is very little if any reflection on her upbringing and very much a reflection of her desire to rebel against it. She is (to a degree) an autonomous person, even though she is a minor and in your care. You can’t control her every move – don’t try to. She will do things that are obnoxious and thoughtless and potentially embarrassing, but only allow her actions to reflect on her. She may discover that when she does something stupid, it makes her look stupid, and you may come off as the supportive and appreciated parent you deserve to be.