Do people go to Heaven(or ascend, whatever you want to call it) when they die, or are will they be gathered up upon the return of Jesus?
Those that know can’t tell us and those that tell us can’t know. As a cafeteria Catholic, I believe (no matter what the Church says) that when we die we learn our fate and go to heaven immediately. What happens to those that don’t qualify is anyone’s guess. I think an all-loving God will take every last one of us.
Thank you. For the purposes of this thread, I am more concerned with the “when”, and not with the “who” or “why”.
Is this a poll, or is there something to debate?
Regards,
Shodan
I figure some might use Bible verses to justify their beliefs, and others might point out other Bible verses to justify a different opinion, so I stuck it in Great Debates.
For what it’s worth, according to my Catholic Sunday school teacher, our souls go to heaven when we die, and then we get our bodies back at the end of world. Whether he was repeating official Catholic doctrine or that was his own WAG, I don’t know.
Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today, you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43.
Which doesn’t make a ton of sense anyway since, supposedly Jesus went straight to hell for the next 3 days to conquer sin and all. Not sure if he even made a detour into Heaven. But who knows?
Can we make some other choice? My understanding of Jesus’s teaching is that heaven isn’t a “place” to which one goes, but a thing which one values and carries in one’s heart.
Interesting idea and all, but you don’t really have a heart when you’re dead. So, it must be some kind of spiritual realm you occupy along with others according to the Bible:
Plenty of Scripture here describing some aspects of the christian heaven support the idea that it is some kind of dwelling. Take yer pick.
ETA: I’m an agnostic (but one who was raised christian). Hope it’s okay I’m here?
OK, fair enough. My answer is None of the Above. You don’t exist in time after you die, but are with God, who is also outside time. All the references in Scripture are figurative.
It is rather like asking “what were things like before the Big Bang?”
Regards,
Shodan
Judging from Revelations (no Bible in my pocket at the moment), I assume that you go to Heaven post-return of Jesus. However, you spend that time “sleeping” so you don’t notice the difference anyway.
As a Catholic, the implication is that praying for saintly intervention wouldn’t be too helpful since the saints aren’t actually in Heaven to intervene on your behalf. But I’ve never actually prayed to saints anyway so it doesn’t keep me up at nights.
I believe in the immediate judgement, but I do see the point of those that say all will be judged at once later. I think as much is implied in the Apostles Creed:
From 2 Timothy 4:
Of the dozens of defintions for “heart”, I certainly did not mean that heaven is carried in the blood pumping organ. Rather, that it is in the essential core of a person qua spiritual being. As Jesus teaches, when people search for His kingdom, they must look within:
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you."Luke 17:20-21
A view by the early Church is that “Hell” (actually “Hades”) had a Paradisial component where the pre-Christ righteous people went & that was where Jesus went to gather them up & deliver them into Heaven at His resurrection. I do also believe He evangelized those in the more “Hellish” part.
To the OP- for the most part, the souls of the saved go into Heaven. When Christ returns to the Earth, those saved souls are given immortal material bodies so that we can visibly return with Him.
Understood. But if Heaven resides “within us”, the where would our spirits reside? I interpret this passage talks about keeping the KoG in your heart while in physical form, then once your spirit passes on, it ascends to the actual KoG.
I respect your interpretation even though ours differ. As I see it, spirit is supernatural, and thus not bound by time or space: it is eternal and everywhere. I see man as a dual creature, on the one hand a biological animal like any other, and on the other hand a spiritual being in the likeness of God. But like I said up front, this is my understanding, and I wouldn’t hold anyone else to it.
Sounds very interesting, but maybe this subject should have its own thread?
Wow.
We were fleshing out what I meant by “heart” when I said that heaven is carried in one’s heart, which was in direct response to the survey question you asked, which you invited Christians to answer. If you had meant to exclude me, you could have put it in your OP.
Wow. Get off the cross, bub. I was sincere when I said that it would make an interesting topic for its own thread, one I would be interested in participating in, btw.
Actually the whole verse is, "Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
And the comma does not belong in the sentence. There were no comma’s in the ancient texts so that verse can have two meanings.
Your quoted version:
"Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Meaning: "I am telling you the truth right now, that you will be with me in Heaven.
My quoted version:
"Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Meaning: “Today, or rather later on today after you die, you and I will be playing cards and sipping brandy.”
So it could mean that eventually the guy goes to heaven or he goes to heaven today.
As to the OP I’ve interpretted the bible to say that we will go to heaven eventually and not a split second after we die like Jophiel said.
But my personal beliefs are more like Liberal’s.